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Caravan Number Plate For New Car - No V5 Yet


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If a supplier is selling 'road legal' plates without seeing the relevant documents then he is breaking the law. Are you therefore guilty of aiding and abetting for buying them? After all, if you didn't buy them he wouldn't break the law by selling them.

I prefer the term *otherwise legal" which is what I buy.

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I never bother because the ID regulations are too perverse for those of us without photo-id (legally) so I just order a "show plate" off the internet sticking to legal font & spacing - quicker usu

Cant your car dealer make one up for you. He did for the car.

As posted, because the ID requirements are difficult to comply with for a minority of people who don't have de-facto photo-ID, ie no passport and an old paper driving licence, and for which the paper

 

If a supplier is selling 'road legal' plates without seeing the relevant documents then he is breaking the law. Are you therefore guilty of aiding and abetting for buying them? After all, if you didn't buy them he wouldn't break the law by selling them.

 

Not if the seller is selling tham as 'show plates'.

 

If anybody is breaking the law I would argue it's the person using them on their car or caravan.

 

At the end of the day show plates are not illegal in themselves. Hence I said earlier the law surrounding the whole issue of number plates is a bit of a joke.

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I prefer the term *otherwise legal" which is what I buy.

 

"Otherwise legal" would suggest they aren't quite legal, maybe due to the lack of the BS mark or the makers postcode. I was just wondering how tonykaren managed to get road legal plates without providing documents.

 

 

 

Not if the seller is selling tham as 'show plates'.

 

If anybody is breaking the law I would argue it's the person using them on their car or caravan.

 

At the end of the day show plates are not illegal in themselves. Hence I said earlier the law surrounding the whole issue of number plates is a bit of a joke.

 

 

So if they are road legal plates why sell them as 'show plates' and not 'number plates'?

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"Otherwise legal" would suggest they aren't quite legal, maybe due to the lack of the BS mark or the makers postcode. I was just wondering how tonykaren managed to get road legal plates without providing documents.

 

 

 

 

So if they are road legal plates why sell them as 'show plates' and not 'number plates'?

 

There are two sets of regulations regarding registration plates - the BS AU145d in respect of the materials used and those in respect of the colour, size and font used.

 

The plates require the BS AU145d mark, the name, trademark or other way of identifying the manufacturer or component supplier and the name and postcode of the supplying outlet to be shown (unless they are the same) but very few of the unlawful sources supply plates with everything included. .

 

A plate may meet all the legal requirements but if the supplier doesn't comply with the regulations in requiring purchaser and vehicle ID and keeping a registerof sales etc then the supplier commits an offence. The purchaser is unlikely to be prosecuted for obtaining such plates and, as they are indistinguishable from any other legal plate, there would be no reason for any checks to be made if the vehicle was stopped.

Edited by beejay
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One of mine came from an Ebay seller in Scotland I have a feeling documentation is not need to be shown there as their laws different.

Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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One of mine came from an Ebay seller in Scotland I have a feeling documentation is not need to be shown there as their laws different.

Although that was a loophole for many years, it's been changed in the last few years as Scotland is now in line with England & Wales in this respect.

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Although that was a loophole for many years, it's been changed in the last few years as Scotland is now in line with England & Wales in this respect.

Was a previous caravan.

When recently in a hardware shop I noticed adhesive black numbers and letters were on sale and I'm sure I,ve seen the adhesive yellow number plate backings on sale some where else of course won't be legal but would get the OP on the road.

Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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Because they can?

 

Obviously.

 

Alright, I'll rephrase my question. If you are selling something which is perfectly legal to use on your car on the road what possible reason would you have for suggesting it is illegal to use, thereby cutting your customer base and consequently your sales, by a huge percentage? It's not 'obvious' to me, even if 'they can'.

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Alright, I'll rephrase my question. If you are selling something which is perfectly legal to use on your car on the road what possible reason would you have for suggesting it is illegal to use, thereby cutting your customer base and consequently your sales, by a huge percentage? It's not 'obvious' to me, even if 'they can'.

AFAIK the selling is the offence - using isn't.

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"Otherwise legal" would suggest they aren't quite legal, maybe due to the lack of the BS mark or the makers postcode. I was just wondering how tonykaren managed to get road legal plates without providing documents.

 

 

 

 

So if they are road legal plates why sell them as 'show plates' and not 'number plates'?

surprisingly very easy. .....never mentioned show plates. ..they are sold as road legal, i have purchased plates this way for a few years and will continue doing so never once been stopped by any authorities to state otherwise, and if i am correct number plates are part of a vehicles mot never been advised on them there either, surely if people are that concerned then dont buy from the internet,personally i have better things to do with my time than stand in line with documents, life is way to short.

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Last year I wanted a number plate to mark my storage pitch. I saw a shop advertising that they made number plates and went in and asked if I needed V5 and ID etc. I told them it was for a sign and wasn't going to be mounted on a vehicle. They said they could supply without documentation as it wasn't a vehicle plate. I asked what the difference was and they said it would be identical to the car's.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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I'm surprised that the illegal show plates are not being more effort to stop them as the whole vehicle tax, MOT,and insurance is reliant on the ANPR system to police it and you could drive around for years. Copying the identity of another identical vehicle is easier just by getting the vehicles plates .

 

 

 

Dave

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I'm surprised that the illegal show plates are not being more effort to stop them as the whole vehicle tax, MOT,and insurance is reliant on the ANPR system to police it and you could drive around for years. Copying the identity of another identical vehicle is easier just by getting the vehicles plates .

 

 

 

Dave

 

Totally agree. It seems very stupid to leave such a massive loophole open in the legislation.

 

I would have thought it would be quite easy to draw up legislation that not only states the specification of a legal plate (which they have done) but also defines that if you make plates up that follow that defined specification you have to follow the correct procedure regarding seeing documents etc.

 

'Show plates' could still be allowed but only if they didn't meet the defined specification, and as these don't meet the spec. required on the road they could be policed (subject of course to there being any police officers to police it!)

 

After all, why would anybody want 'show plates' that look exactly the same as ones you get from your local Halfords. Surely the whole point is so that you can mess about with the spacing, font size and formatting, for the purposes of 'showing' your car at a show?

Edited by Tin_Snail
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You have to be a member of the BNMA to produce number plates or the plates are illegal .

 

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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After all, why would anybody want 'show plates' that look exactly the same as ones you get from your local Halfords. Surely the whole point is so that you can mess about with the spacing, font size and formatting, for the purposes of 'showing' your car at a show?

As posted, because the ID requirements are difficult to comply with for a minority of people who don't have de-facto photo-ID, ie no passport and an old paper driving licence, and for which the paper alternatives are unworkable in a paper-less society.

 

IMO, parliament should have introduced the National Identity Card which would then have been the sole definer of ID - but the lefties/softies rejected that as an infringement of personal freedom - why anyone living a legal, legitimate life needs to worry about that I don't know.

 

We need more "joined up thinking" among politicians and civil servants - I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by Black Grouse
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The official route to get a plate without a V5 is to get a V379 from your local DVLA.

 

 

On the topic of plates with an EU flag, nobody knows what will happen, but it's safe to say rights of existing plates will be grandfathered. It's also worth noting that e. g. Norway has a plate with its own flag rather than the EU stars and to the best of my knowledge that's acceptable without a separate sticker in the EU. It's a reasonable bet that we'll go down that route.

As posted, because the ID requirements are difficult to comply with for a minority of people who don't have de-facto photo-ID, ie no passport and an old paper driving licence, and for which the paper alternatives are unworkable in a paper-less society.

 

IMO, parliament should have introduced the National Identity Card which would then have been the sole definer of ID - but the lefties/softies rejected that as an infringement of personal freedom - why anyone living a legal, legitimate life needs to worry about that I don't know.

 

We need more "joined up thinking" among politicians and civil servants - I'm not holding my breath.

I've no problem with an identity card. I've every problem with being forced to carry such an item. And along with many others who opposed, my politics are right of centre.

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You have to be a member of the BNMA to produce number plates or the plates are illegal .

 

 

 

Dave

 

Thats fine - but what is to stop a member making up show plates that meet the defined spec. ???? Alongside making plates that are produced following the production of the correct documentation?

 

I would wager a number of these internet sellers are either the exact same company as ones that require the documentation or are companies run along side them but using the same equipment.

 

If you stipulated that you have to see the required documentation before making up plates that meet the defined spec. then you remove any ambiguity and any loophole (you could still require BNMA membership as well)

Edited by Tin_Snail
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"You have to be a member of the BNMA to produce number plates or the plates are illegal ."

 

If the plates meet the BS AU 145d standard the plates are legal it is the supplier who commits an offence by supplying the plates if they aren't a member of BNMA.

knarf

Edited by KNARF
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"You have to be a member of the BNMA to produce number plates or the plates are illegal ."

 

If the plates meet the BS AU 145d standard the plates are legal it is the supplier who commits an offence by supplying the plates if they aren't a member of BNMA.

knarf

 

 

 

The plates are counterfeit and are illegally made which makes the plates illegal . Even if plates have the relative information .

 

 

Dave

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Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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You have to be a member of the BNMA to produce number plates or the plates are illegal .

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

Not true.

 

"The BNMA are an organisation that represents 95% of the UK's major number plate component, manufacturers and distributors. They are the industry's link to the UK governments Department of Transport and the DVLA".

 

If you stipulated that you have to see the required documentation before making up plates that meet the defined spec. then you remove any ambiguity and any loophole (you could still require BNMA membership as well)

 

 

The regulations require number plate suppliers to do exactly that and keep a record for two years. ;)

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