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Alde Heating 3020. Temperature Issue

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Hello

We have a nearly new Coachman caravan, for the first few months the heating worked fine, but then the system would turn on when the temprature dropped by 0. 5 degrees and not turn off until plus 1 degrees as shown on the panel.

 

We contacted Alde who said this is a known fault and suggested the temprature cable was routed alongside a mains cable but non the less they sent out a Filter to plug into the rear of the panel before the temprature sensor plug.

 

We haven't been away since the filter was fitted, as Alde said this is a known fault, has anyone had this and did the filter cure it?

 

When Alde said the mains could be interferening we unplugged the EHU and used gas, but it was still the same which does indicate that the panel is damaged. I will add if this is known why don't Alde provide shielded cable on the temprature sensor?

 

We are still under warranty so if the heating required a new panel would Alde provide one or argue Coachman should?

Edited by Simple Life

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I'd go straight back to the dealer. Your issue is with them, not Alde.

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Your legal rights are with the dealer. Who or where they get the replacement from is not your problem. That's assuming you purchase from a dealer.

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AS above - you are not ALDE's customer. You should go through the dealer.

 

However some firms like Whale and Alde can be quite helpful although they don't need to be.

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Hello. Assuming the fluids are at temperature, you should find the circulation pump activates at Delta T* 0. 0 °C for 100% of an 8 min cycle, then 66% of an 8 min cycle at +0. 5 °C, and 33% at +0. 7, deactivating at +1. 0. So the behaviour you describe may be normal.

 

*Delta T being the difference between actual indoor temp and desired indoor temp (set on the control panel).

 

Electromagnetic interference (EMI) causes the temperature measured by the sensor to flutter by up to 1 degree constantly, up down, up down.

 

Regulations stipulate that low voltage (LV) and extra low voltage (ELV) cabling should be separated, so a shielded cable should not be required. Where the discrete temp sensor must be routed alongside LV cables because no other option exists, Alde can supply an EMI filter so it's not usually a problem.

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Our control panel exhibits the same as the OP's and I just assumed this was normal - if the room temp is set to say 22 degC and not calling for heat, when the room temp drops to 21. 5 degC according to the panel, the heating cuts in. It then cuts out when the display reaches 23 degC. That's the way it is I guess ;) .

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When i was a contractor the regs suggested the cable route should be separated if possible for at least 75% of the run. You could try wrapping alli foil around if need be, but only earth one end. But that was a long time ago.


Our control panel exhibits the same as the OP's and I just assumed this was normal - if the room temp is set to say 22 degC and not calling for heat, when the room temp drops to 21. 5 degC according to the panel, the heating cuts in. It then cuts out when the display reaches 23 degC. That's the way it is I guess ;) .

 

Most systems work the same, hysteresis is normal, the Alde system sounds good to me reading the Adle post.

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I cant see what all the fuss is about - It strikes me as nit-picking of the highest order. .

 

I'd doubt its a precision device anyway. If you want the temp at 22 degrees and it switches at 23, then set it to 21 and it'll switch at 22.

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If it was nit picking why would alde fit a filter. ;)

 

My central heating controls to 0. 5 degrees C. Alde have posted the EMI pick up can create a 1 degree variance.

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Hello all, thanks for the replies. Yes we bought it new, the fault is incredibly annoying as the the thing switches on every 2 seconds, slight exaggeration, before it would not come on as often and turn off at the desired temprature. Turning off at +1 makes the caravan unbearably hot when in bed, and as the pump is in the wardrobe noisy.

 

Alde when I contacted them acknowledged it as a fault and supplied the filter.

 

On warranty when we looked at the paper work every single item in the caravan comes with its own manufacturers warranty of varying lengths, I would have thought even if we go to the trouble of taking it to the dealers all they will do is claim against Alde? It's not due it's first service until June next year so will inform the dealer then.

Edited by Simple Life

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+1 degree makes it too hot? Assuming you are talking about night-time, the default night temp is 15/16C. Have you set the minimum overnight temperature?

 

As to a noisy pump. check the pump speed on the Alde panel - usually set at 2, but may have been left higher (after a dealer service say) if they forget to reset.

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As I have already stated in another topic. My system see-saws in temperature. Not a lot when looking at the readout but nevertheless uncomfortably so. This sounds a bit like the OP's except mine does not have a discrete temperature sensor. Just the one built into the control panel. I have ordered a discrete sensor in the hope that this cures the problem

 

I am aware that there is something wrong as essentially the system is the same as the one fitted to my previous van except for the circulation pump. And that worked fine.

 

I suspect that, like the OP, outwardly the heating seems to work OK. Other posters are already hinting that the OP is being too fussy. Therefore demonstrating that the comfort levels are not what they should be will be problematic.

 

Re. The Alde post. If I understand this correctly. There seems to be a complex program to tail off the heat as it nears the temperature set. I wonder how this can be tested as in my case the heat keeps building even after the pump cuts off due to the latent heat in the system.

 

 

John

Edited by JCloughie

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Hello all, thanks for the replies. Yes we bought it new, the fault is incredibly annoying as the the thing switches on every 2 seconds, slight exaggeration, before it would not come on as often and turn off at the desired temprature. Turning off at +1 makes the caravan unbearably hot when in bed, and as the pump is in the wardrobe noisy.

 

Alde when I contacted them acknowledged it as a fault and supplied the filter.

 

On warranty when we looked at the paper work every single item in the caravan comes with its own manufacturers warranty of varying lengths, I would have thought even if we go to the trouble of taking it to the dealers all they will do is claim against Alde? It's not due it's first service until June next year so will inform the dealer then.

Ignore those that say only use the dealer.

 

I have dealt direct with companies direct. Whale for example have sent me FOC a new kitchen tap and a set of "O" rings to sucessfully sort problems, I've also had a refrigeration engineer visit to repair a Dometic fridge at home.

 

And i forgot Tracker.

+1 degree makes it too hot? Assuming you are talking about night-time, the default night temp is 15/16C. Have you set the minimum overnight temperature?

 

As to a noisy pump. check the pump speed on the Alde panel - usually set at 2, but may have been left higher (after a dealer service say) if they forget to reset.

I can set my night temperature to any value, first time I've read of a default value.

Also only the boiler mounted pump has speed control?

Edited by xtrailman

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Ignore those that say only use the dealer.

 

I have dealt direct with companies direct. Whale for example have sent me FOC a new kitchen tap and a set of "O" rings to sucessfully sort problems, I've also had a refrigeration engineer visit to repair a Dometic fridge at home.

 

And i forgot Tracker.

:goodpost: +1

I have dealt with Sargent, BCA, Coachman, and recently, Thetford, Alde & Solar Technology direct and have had good service they have sorted everything out very smoothly, if you wait for the dealer it could take for ever

Edited by kiaboy
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As I have already stated in another topic. My system see-saws in temperature. Not a lot when looking at the readout but nevertheless uncomfortably so. This sounds a bit like the OP's except mine does not have a discrete temperature sensor. Just the one built into the control panel. I have ordered a discrete sensor in the hope that this cures the problem

 

I am aware that there is something wrong as essentially the system is the same as the one fitted to my previous van except for the circulation pump. And that worked fine.

 

I suspect that, like the OP, outwardly the heating seems to work OK. Other posters are already hinting that the OP is being too fussy. Therefore demonstrating that the comfort levels are not what they should be will be problematic.

 

Re. The Alde post. If I understand this correctly. There seems to be a complex program to tail off the heat as it nears the temperature set. I wonder how this can be tested as in my case the heat keeps building even after the pump cuts off due to the latent heat in the system.

 

 

John

I was impressed with Aldes explanation of the heating operation, assuming it was a simple on/off system with a set hysteresis, i used to work on more complex control systems with PID control, so you had more tools to obtain a accurate desired set point.

 

You can't successfully control any system if the feedback value is in error.

Edited by xtrailman

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I agree that with dealing direct with the manufacturer is OK and often quicker. But I never leave the dealer out of the communication.

 

Two recent examples.

 

Outdoor revolution, slow puncture in an extra set of roof poles. wrote to manufacturer copying in the dealer. Same day had a reply from the dealer saying Outdoor Revolution would send a replacement. 2 days later all sorted. great service.

 

Last year with Bradcot. Dealt direct with Bradcot, dealer said this was normal for them. At one point the dealer tried to pass on all responsibility to Bradcot and I had to polity but firmly remind them of their ultimate responsibility. They then chased Bradcot and a refund was given.

 

In the past I have had retailers try hard to fob me off so have gone to the manufacturer who have taken over and apologised.

 

John

Edited by JCloughie

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As I have already stated in another topic. My system see-saws in temperature. Not a lot when looking at the readout but nevertheless uncomfortably so. This sounds a bit like the OP's except mine does not have a discrete temperature sensor. Just the one built into the control panel. I have ordered a discrete sensor in the hope that this cures the problem

 

I am aware that there is something wrong as essentially the system is the same as the one fitted to my previous van except for the circulation pump. And that worked fine.

 

I suspect that, like the OP, outwardly the heating seems to work OK. Other posters are already hinting that the OP is being too fussy. Therefore demonstrating that the comfort levels are not what they should be will be problematic.

 

Re. The Alde post. If I understand this correctly. There seems to be a complex program to tail off the heat as it nears the temperature set. I wonder how this can be tested as in my case the heat keeps building even after the pump cuts off due to the latent heat in the system.

 

 

John

We found the sensor at the panel to be next to useless, very inaccurate by far more than the panel allows to compensate for. The 3020 allows users to choose which sensor to use.

 

Unless you have experienced this fault it's difficult to understand the annoyance, the pump is the 12 volt type fitted in the header tank that's located in the wardrobe right next to my head, so when it sets off going at the slightest change in temprature it's incredibly annoying as at the dead of night it sounds very loud. No speed control on this type of pump.

 

The system worked perfect for a few months then this issue arose. As said earlier we can't test the filter until probably the new year that will mean bringing the van home from storage once the builders have gone.

I would be quite happy to send the panel to Alde for testing which is probably the route we will approach first.

Edited by Simple Life

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We found the sensor at the panel to be next to useless, very inaccurate by far more than the panel allows to compensate for. The 3020 allows users to choose which sensor to use.

 

Unless you have experienced this fault it's difficult to understand the annoyance, the pump is the 12 volt type fitted in the header tank that's located in the wardrobe right next to my head, so when it sets off going at the slightest change in temprature it's incredibly annoying as at the dead of night it sounds very loud. No speed control on this type of pump.

 

The system worked perfect for a few months then this issue arose. As said earlier we can't test the filter until probably the new year that will mean bringing the van home from storage once the builders have gone.

I would be quite happy to send the panel to Alde for testing which is probably the route we will approach first.

Our Lunar has the same header tank pump. Not so good as the in line we had in the Bailey by a long way. I can hear it in bed but luckily it does not effect my sleep.

 

Although ours is a bit older than yours I think the system is the same. Did yours come with a remote sensor already fitted? You say the panel allows a choice of which sensor to use? I have only just ordered the remote sensor so its not fitted as yet but my understanding is that once plugged in it cuts out the sensor built into the control panel.

 

Someone has suggested drilling a couple of holes in the panel to allow more airflow to the sensor. seems a bit drastic. The Bailey only used the sensor in the control panel although this was the 3010 version, and that was spot on. The control panel is by the door in both vans.

 

Until Alde wrote in post #5 I was not aware of this 'tailing off' of the heating. I wonder if this is a problem that might be shared by us both. If the heating goes full blast until it reaches the set temp then shuts off, the residual heat will take it above the setting.

 

You suggest perhaps sending the control unit to Alde for testing. But would that do any good, the fault may lie in the boilers PCB.

 

I wonder to what extent fault codes and be read, and If dealers have the expertise to interpret them.

 

Regarding any interference from the mains cable. I hear what you say about the fault still being present off hook up, so that makes no sense. Also, at least in my van, the wire to the remote sensor when fitted, will be the best part of 2 metres away from any mains cable.

 

 

 

John

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I just set mine at 30 C, so there's no worry at all! It's lovely!

 

Russ

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I just set mine at 30 C, so there's no worry at all! It's lovely!

 

Russ

 

Yeah Russ but most of us where clothes in the 'van or MH lol.

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Funniliy enough, tee shirt and shorts on.

 

Hate wearing thick clothes and jeans etc

 

Same in the house too. Saves laundry

 

Russ

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Our Lunar has the same header tank pump. Not so good as the in line we had in the Bailey by a long way. I can hear it in bed but luckily it does not effect my sleep.

 

Although ours is a bit older than yours I think the system is the same. Did yours come with a remote sensor already fitted? You say the panel allows a choice of which sensor to use? I have only just ordered the remote sensor so its not fitted as yet but my understanding is that once plugged in it cuts out the sensor built into the control panel.

 

Someone has suggested drilling a couple of holes in the panel to allow more airflow to the sensor. seems a bit drastic. The Bailey only used the sensor in the control panel although this was the 3010 version, and that was spot on. The control panel is by the door in both vans.

 

Until Alde wrote in post #5 I was not aware of this 'tailing off' of the heating. I wonder if this is a problem that might be shared by us both. If the heating goes full blast until it reaches the set temp then shuts off, the residual heat will take it above the setting.

 

You suggest perhaps sending the control unit to Alde for testing. But would that do any good, the fault may lie in the boilers PCB.

 

I wonder to what extent fault codes and be read, and If dealers have the expertise to interpret them.

 

Regarding any interference from the mains cable. I hear what you say about the fault still being present off hook up, so that makes no sense. Also, at least in my van, the wire to the remote sensor when fitted, will be the best part of 2 metres away from any mains cable.

 

 

 

John

The remote sensor came fitted, it's above the door in the panel that holds the switches and voltmeter.

 

The 3020 panel allows the switching between panel sensor and remote,also you can have 2 remote sensors and choose between lounge/bedroom sensor so make sure you plug yours into the correct terminal otherwise the picture of settee or bed won't coraspond to the location.

We already have the load monitor, external temprature sensor and the overpriced battery backup, so we may as well go for the bedroom remote sensor too, full house then!

 

We are guessing that it's the panel could be the boiler but once we get it home we can investigate further.

 

As for drilling holes don't do it, you could try running it with the silver faceplate off, I forgot to add we also bought the black face plate so can say with confedance the panel heat sensor will then be exposed but don't expect it to make any diference it's still rubbish.

 

It's not latent heat that's the issue, for example we set it at 20 degrees, at 19. 5 it switches on and at 21 it switches off. Still digesting what Alde said.

Edited by Simple Life

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The remote sensor came fitted, it's above the door in the panel that holds the switches and voltmeter.

The 3020 panel allows the switching between panel sensor and remote,also you can have 2 remote sensors and choose between lounge/bedroom sensor so make sure you plug yours into the correct terminal otherwise the picture of settee or bed won't coraspond to the location.

We already have the load monitor, external temprature sensor and the overpriced battery backup, so we may as well go for the bedroom remote sensor too, full house then!

We are guessing that it's the panel could be the boiler but once we get it home we can investigate further.

As for drilling holes don't do it, you could try running it with the silver faceplate off, I forgot to add we also bought the black face plate so can say with confedance the panel heat sensor will then be exposed but don't expect it to make any diference it's still rubbish.

It's not latent heat that's the issue, for example we set it at 20 degrees, at 19. 5 it switches on and at 21 it switches off. Still digesting what Alde said.

Interesting. I never intended to drill the control panel, it was just someone's suggestion.

 

Reading the Alde PDF I saw the pictures of the bed and sofa on the wiring diagram but could find no explanation.

 

John

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Hello. Assuming the fluids are at temperature, you should find the circulation pump activates at Delta T* 0. 0 °C for 100% of an 8 min cycle, then 66% of an 8 min cycle at +0. 5 °C, and 33% at +0. 7, deactivating at +1. 0. So the behaviour you describe may be normal.

 

*Delta T being the difference between actual indoor temp and desired indoor temp (set on the control panel).

 

Electromagnetic interference (EMI) causes the temperature measured by the sensor to flutter by up to 1 degree constantly, up down, up down.

 

Regulations stipulate that low voltage (LV) and extra low voltage (ELV) cabling should be separated, so a shielded cable should not be required. Where the discrete temp sensor must be routed alongside LV cables because no other option exists, Alde can supply an EMI filter so it's not usually a problem.

I am trying to get my head arround this. If I go to my caravan and the temperature is 5 degrees and the set point is 20 degrees from a cold start does the pump run at 100% until the temperature monitor registers 20. Then it runs for a further 8 minutes at this point is it continually monitoring or does it take another temperature after 8 minutes and depending what that is relative to the set point, make a decision for the next 8 minute cycle. For instance if it has only increased by 0. 4c does it then run for a further 8 minutes at 100%? If it +0. 5 it then runs for an 8 minute cycle for 40 seconds per minute and so on? Is that correct ?

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My system see-saws in temperature. Not a lot when looking at the readout but nevertheless uncomfortably so. This sounds a bit like the OP's except mine does not have a discrete temperature sensor. Just the one built into the control panel. I have ordered a discrete sensor in the hope that this cures the problem

 

Hello there. See-sawing temperature as you describe could be related to insulation or responsiveness.

 

You'd likely notice if there was a major chink in your insulation, so that leaves responsiveness.

 

With the standard thermistor in the Alde control panel, it's important that the installation cavity is ventilated and not heated by any electronics etc.

 

Usually there are gaps behind the wall that ventilate the cavity, but because the tolerances on the fitted furniture are relatively large, these gaps can vary in size. If blocked off---especially with other sources of heat in the cavity---this can lead to the material of the control panel and the wall itself staying warm, even when the temperature in the living area drops.

 

You then experience the see-saw effect, since it gets much colder before the central heating cuts in.

 

The surefire solution to this is to fit a discrete temp sensor, so you should have improved comfort once yours is fitted. (Obviously, avoid fitting it in the same cavity as the control panel.)

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