Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
biteme

Calais Is A Lawless Place

Recommended Posts

Put the Daily Mail down for a moment and look at facts. When do immigrants riot? The riots we've had here are not immigrant lead but instigated by criminals looking for an opportunity to profit. There are political groups made up of "Brits" who seek to upset the status quo and try to get change by inciting such acts. Which riots are you referring to?

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have every sympathy for genuine asylum seekers but I will ask one question of you. Leaving aside my sometimes frivolous posts on the subject, this is a serious one. At what stage will you consider the UK to be "full" and stop all immigration? Even the most pro EU supporter must realise that at the current rate of immigration that day will probably occur during our grandchildren's lifetime. If not, geography dictates it will occur one day in the future. What happens then? Not a problem for me, I'm old.

 

Some perspective: many moons ago I used to live & work in Macau. The population density there is 55,300 people/sq mile. When I was there, it was probably higher because there's been massive land reclamation in the meantime and the area of it has gone up from 20sq km when I was there to approx 30sq km now. Over the delta in Hong Kong, bits of Mongkok have population densities of 300,000/sq mile.

 

The UK has a population density of 679/sq mile (England approx 1000). The most crowdy district is Islington (38,000), densest populated location outside London is Portsmouth (approx 13,500).

 

I wouldn't want the UK to turn into Macau or Hong Kong, but it's fanciful to say "we're full".

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best start building huge housing estates in the highlands and islands then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's why I broke it down by location. Even the most densely populated part of London (Islington) is only 2/3 as crowded as Macau. ..and Macau has quite a few green areas too meaning its inhabited parts have even higher population densities.

 

It could be argued that Governments need to take more action to ensure local services grow in-line with population growth, and it could be argued that for cultural reasons we don't want further immigration, but there's no arguable case that there isn't space, even in the UK's busiest cities.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're brought up to play nicely and share, then something happens and we become self obsessed and selfish. We look like the grumpy sod in the corner at a party. We don't want to share anything and we protect what we think is ours. There's no such animosity abroad, they're hospitable and can't give you enough. I'm reasonably well travelled and have never met anyone with anything but the best intentions. I really don't know where this "full" idea comes from. If we're doing so well then maybe others will follow suit and take on some of our ways. The freedom of which we speak is something we should feel free to share with others. The insular attitude makes us out to be miserable gloomy people who don't want friends. The infrastructure to support the intake will need to be planned well and this will create jobs for those already here or coming here. Forward planning is the key to doing it right.

I am not condoning illegal immigrants for one moment but feel the legal immigrants should be made welcome and given the opportunity to integrate into our society. I see no reason why we wouldn't do this as we have the same situation in reverse. Some 2 million of the Brit's work abroad in the EU.

You have hit the nail on the head there. If immigrants integrate then there is rarely a problem. Where the problems start is when various ethnic groups congregate in one area and distance themselves from the society, traditions, laws and language of the host country.

 

This is perfectly understandable as we Brits also migrate towards what is familiar and instinctively tend to congregate with other Brits when abroad. Just look at the UK retired population in Spain as one example of where we have taken over entire areas of "their" country. Many of us don't speak spanish fluently, yet we expect a different standard from those coming to the UK.

 

Both of the above examples in my opinion are wrong, and I believe that those coming to Britain should make every effort to fully integrate, but I also believe that we should do the same when in other countries. When I visit another country I make every effort to learn at least a little of the language and customs I do accept the local customs and practices even if I don't agree with them.

 

As for border security, I firmly believe that having to show a passport is a minor inconvenience if it enables us to keep maintain a safe environment by keeping control of who is in the country. I do not agree with totally free passage between countries whether in the EU or not. I do like to travel to other countries without major hindrance, but I have absolutely no objection to being searched if I look suspicious.

 

Back to the original title of this thread, and currently Calais is not a town I would voluntarily visit. I like France, and generally I like the people but unfortunately the current situation dissuades me from passing through any French port in a private car, and I hate the cattle-truck experience of flying with a commercial airline, so for me it is holidays in the UK for now, unless I can charter a small plane for the price of a ferry ticket.

 

Rallier

 

post-6-0-80280500-1466681771_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put the Daily Mail down for a moment and look at facts. When do immigrants riot? The riots we've had here are not immigrant lead but instigated by criminals looking for an opportunity to profit. There are political groups made up of "Brits" who seek to upset the status quo and try to get change by inciting such acts. Which riots are you referring to?

It was all over the French newspapers in mid May when the migrants at calais had running battles with the police and it seemed the migrants were throwing petrol bombs. How many genuine asylum seekers or refugees are there at Calais. Probably none therefore I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who are at Calais as they probably crossed the whole of France to get there.

You have hit the nail on the head there. If immigrants integrate then there is rarely a problem. Where the problems start is when various ethnic groups congregate in one area and distance themselves from the society, traditions, laws and language of the host country.

Rallier

I am told that there are areas in Birmingham where they do not integrate and the areas can be dominated by one ethnic group. Is this correct?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am told that there are areas in Birmingham where they do not integrate and the areas can be dominated by one ethnic group. Is this correct?

Sadly that is true of many of our cities today. Approaching Birmingham from the south is an absolute joy these days - not!

post-287-0-09457400-1466682447_thumb.jpg

post-287-0-66103700-1466682456_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly that is true of many of our cities today. Approaching Birmingham from the south is an absolute joy these days - not!

attachicon.gifBirmingham 1. jpg

attachicon.gifBirmingham 2. jpg

Brits have to adapt to the society in which they live when in a foreign land so why don't these so called minority ethnic groups adapt and integrate when living in Britain? Some do, but it seems a lot do not want to integrate and adapt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen many Brits in Spain. 1/2 are integrated, speak Spanish, have Spanish friends and enjoy the Spanish culture and traditions.

The other 1/2 sit in the pub, speak no Spanish and complain about everything.

 

Takes all types. .....

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brits have to adapt to the society in which they live when in a foreign land so why don't these so called minority ethnic groups adapt and integrate when living in Britain? Soem do, but it seems a lot do not want to integrate and adapt.

Better tell that to the Brits in the Costas.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am told that there are areas in Birmingham where they do not integrate and the areas can be dominated by one ethnic group. Is this correct?

 

Firstly, do remember that this does not make these "no-go" areas. I believe Mr Trump had to apologise when he said this.

 

Secondly, how much do we expect these people to integrate, what's the right level for them to stop when supplanting their own culture?

 

Should they shop at M&S for their clothes, run a tombola at the CofE coffee morning, cause congestion by driving slowly around their local garden centre? Maybe we are saying that they should take up a British hobby like football hooliganism or caravanning?

 

I think a lot of people forget that the pattern we see is not new. Large immigrant groups tend to be at the poorer end of the spectrum (Brits in Spain are an exception) and as such they are going to live in the more deprived areas. Look at Little Italy and China Town in New York. As a new wave comes in, the previous wave tends to dissipate into society as they become more established.

 

I don't think anyone would expect immigrants to separate themselves from their friends and family so they will tend to congregate. In this country, we also don't expect them to change or suppress their religion. Long may that continue.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was all over the French newspapers in mid May when the migrants at calais had running battles with the police and it seemed the migrants were throwing petrol bombs. How many genuine asylum seekers or refugees are there at Calais. Probably none therefore I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who are at Calais as they probably crossed the whole of France to get there.

 

Less than a fortnight ago the papers were filled with English "fans" running pitched battles with the French police. Does that make every Englishman a hooligan? No. So why does some migrants having running battles with the police mean all of them holed up at Calais should be condemned as lawless (as the thread title implies)?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Firstly, do remember that this does not make these "no-go" areas. I believe Mr Trump had to apologise when he said this.

 

Secondly, how much do we expect these people to integrate, what's the right level for them to stop when supplanting their own culture?

 

Should they shop at M&S for their clothes, run a tombola at the CofE coffee morning, cause congestion by driving slowly around their local garden centre? Maybe we are saying that they should take up a British hobby like football hooliganism or caravanning?

 

I think a lot of people forget that the pattern we see is not new. Large immigrant groups tend to be at the poorer end of the spectrum (Brits in Spain are an exception) and as such they are going to live in the more deprived areas. Look at Little Italy and China Town in New York. As a new wave comes in, the previous wave tends to dissipate into society as they become more established.

 

I don't think anyone would expect immigrants to separate themselves from their friends and family so they will tend to congregate. In this country, we also don't expect them to change or suppress their religion. Long may that continue.

I am a migrant from Africa and adapted to British ways as our culture is different to British culture. Granted we did not have a language barrier, but initially many words were foriegn to me. It was difficult but we adapted and now I have British friends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a migrant from Africa and adapted to British ways as our culture is different to British culture. Granted we did not have a language barrier, but initially many words were foriegn to me. It was difficult but we adapted and now I have British friends.

That's great and sounds very familiar (in the truest sense) to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My doctor is German, my dentist Norwegian, my neighbour is French, my mother was looked after by a Polish care worker, and my little grandson's childminder is Turkish. That's 2016 life. All valuable people. None of them involved in any rioting.

Edited by moorgate
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vegetables on my plate were picked by people from all over Europe except it seems Britian, as those did not want that type of work.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was 13, my father became an economic migrant and brought the family from the South-East up to Chesterfield, Derbyshire for promotion.

It was tough at first for us kids with the language barrier. They had all sorts of strange words like "Ey-up". Eventually we settled in and made a life for ourselves. I do have some friends who are from the North too.

However, we still retained our own culture. We still went for a 'barth' and played on the 'graarse'.

 

So you see, I know how hard it can be. ....

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was 13, my father became an economic migrant and brought the family from the South-East up to Chesterfield, Derbyshire for promotion.

It was tough at first for us kids with the language barrier. They had all sorts of strange words like "Ey-up". Eventually we settled in and made a life for ourselves. I do have some friends who are from the North too.

However, we still retained our own culture. We still went for a 'barth' and played on the 'graarse'.

 

So you see, I know how hard it can be. ....

 

 

I bet you still have lunch when you should be having dinner, and dinner when you should be having tea too. ...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My doctor is German, my dentist Norwegian, my neighbour is French, my mother was looked after by a Polish care worker, and my little grandson's childminder is Turkish. That's 2016 life. All valuable people. None of them involved in any rioting.

 

Apart from the Grandson, right?! :lol:;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was 13, my father became an economic migrant and brought the family from the South-East up to Chesterfield, Derbyshire for promotion.

It was tough at first for us kids with the language barrier. They had all sorts of strange words like "Ey-up". Eventually we settled in and made a life for ourselves. I do have some friends who are from the North too.

However, we still retained our own culture. We still went for a 'barth' and played on the 'graarse'.

 

So you see, I know how hard it can be. ....

Thaz ad it reet soft. Gud job tha didunt afta shift firtha up t'north.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This story got a big bit in today's Sunday Times.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...