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Truma Blown Air Vs Alde Wet System: Surprise Test Result

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We had the Truma S3000 in our Lunar 640 and when we changed to the Delta with the ALDE sytem, the most obvious was that the ALDE system took far longer to warm up the caravan. Both caravans about the same size.

Both suffered from cold spots in the caravan and with the ALDE system we had to buy a rug buddy or underfloor heating mat for the front of the caravan to eliminate the cold spot. With the S3000 a remote sensor had to be fitted to eleiminate the cold spots.

The big advantage with the Truma S3000 was that you could use it to blow air around the caravan in the summer and this made it feel cooler as the air was drawn up from underneath the caravan if I remember correctly.

Although we preferred the Truma system over the ALDE, we are not so sure now as we have had the caravan modified by the manufacturer and this did help with the caravan warming up quicker although still nto as quick as the Truma S3000. I would think that a Truma S5000 woudl knock spots off any ALDE system when it comes to warming up the caravan and probably no issue with cold spots. Biggest disadvantage of ALDE is weight and this eats into your payload as we now carry the awning, windbreaks etc in the car.

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IMHO, there is absolutely no comparison between the wet system and the dry one. The wet system is far superior in every way, whether it is in a van or a flat! The only wrinkle is the vanner who moves around from site to site every one or two days, when the Alde does take longer to heat up.

 

Would I live in a house with dry heating? Would you, for that matter?

 

Quite. It's a very good point that there's a "style" to the heat as well as the raw figures. I'm also suspicious of the 4 measuring locations used in the report; whole point of Alde is more even heat.

 

It's noticeable that any thread such as this has many users of Alde who would never go back to blown air, but very few the other way around (bit like auto versus manual cars). The main complaint about Alde is the time to warm up, but I do wonder how much this is people neglecting to put it on dual-fuel gas+electric. ..on electric it is slow. Part of that may be whether people have the 3010 or newer 3020 unit - the control panel on the former does seem a little complex.

 

Back to the original article, I'm confused by some of it. It claims 7. 5KW for the Truma, and 6. 4KW for the Alde. But 7. 5KW is the figure for gas+electric, whereas the Alde has 6. 4KW gas + 3KW electric, making 9. 4KW altogether(*). So is this a misunderstanding of the manual, or have they been running the Alde on gas only?

 

(*) I think. These are actually the butane figures. A more relevant number would be the propane (if you're running at full pelt it would imply it's cold outside hence winter), which is 5. 5KW.

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Truma S5000 woudl knock spots off any ALDE system when it comes to warming up the caravan and probably no issue with cold spots. Biggest disadvantage of ALDE is weight and this eats into your payload as we now carry the awning, windbreaks etc in the car.

I hope that you are wrong but fear you might be correct! The issue for us is going to be the warm up time on a Friday night when we get into a van that might have been siting in storage for 2 weeks in near 0 degrees. We shall see.

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Would I live in a house with dry heating? Would you, for that matter?

 

They are both dry heating systems. Common practice in many homes to put water-filled humidifiers on each rad.

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I hope that you are wrong but fear you might be correct! The issue for us is going to be the warm up time on a Friday night when we get into a van that might have been siting in storage for 2 weeks in near 0 degrees. We shall see.

 

Don't some vans (assuming it is those with Alde) have the option of heating the van while you are towing it? Might be useful for you?

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I'm a bit surprised the physicists on this site haven't picked up on this one yet.

 

The blown air system is supplying 17% more energy to the caravan than the radiator system, so you'd expect it to raise the temperature by 17% more also.

 

Think back to Thermodynamics. .............Q = MC(T2 - T1)

 

For a comparison between 2 identical 'vans M and C will be constant (I realise M will vary slightly between a blown air system and a radiator system), so the rise in temperature (in Celcius or Kelvin) will be proportional to Q (energy input in Joules).

 

I did the sums today at my desk and the difference in temperature reached by the two systems in equal time is nicely explained (within experimental error) by the 17% power difference between the two.

 

Notwithstanding the physics - I'll stick to Alde.

 

Regards

 

Paul

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Don't some vans (assuming it is those with Alde) have the option of heating the van while you are towing it? Might be useful for you?

 

I think that this is for motor homes can't remember if it takes heat from the exhaust or having a heat exchanger on the engine cooling system

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I think that this is for motor homes can't remember if it takes heat from the exhaust or having a heat exchanger on the engine cooling system

 

Not sure if anyone else ever claimed to do it, but http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/user/32697-ianv8/ did:

 

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/76683-heating-whilst-towing/?p=805605

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The Truma system in our Adria Adora is more than adequate, heats up quickly and maintains it's set temperature.

Never used the Alde system so can't comment on it.

 

Dave

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I'm a bit surprised the physicists on this site haven't picked up on this one yet.

 

The blown air system is supplying 17% more energy to the caravan than the radiator system, so you'd expect it to raise the temperature by 17% more also.

 

Think back to Thermodynamics. .............Q = MC(T2 - T1)

 

For a comparison between 2 identical 'vans M and C will be constant (I realise M will vary slightly between a blown air system and a radiator system), so the rise in temperature (in Celcius or Kelvin) will be proportional to Q (energy input in Joules).

 

I did the sums today at my desk and the difference in temperature reached by the two systems in equal time is nicely explained (within experimental error) by the 17% power difference between the two.

 

Notwithstanding the physics - I'll stick to Alde.

 

Regards

 

Paul

I said yesterday at 9. 52pm when it was in effect pointed out that I was an ignorant non-scientist: "Well I'd kick off by pointing out that the blown air system is pumping in 20% more power for a start, which might partially explain why its heat up time to 20C is 2 hours rather than 3 hours."

 

So thanks Paul, it's nice to see this comment!

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I said yesterday at 9. 52pm when it was in effect pointed out that I was an ignorant non-scientist: "Well I'd kick off by pointing out that the blown air system is pumping in 20% more power for a start, which might partially explain why its heat up time to 20C is 2 hours rather than 3 hours."

 

So thanks Paul, it's nice to see this comment!

 

Which would all make sense if the article hadn't got the power outputs wrong - the Truma figure stated is total, Alde is for gas only, electric adds another 3KW (unless my rudimentary German and reading of Truma's / Alde's spec sheets is wrong, which it could be).

 

Post 4 of http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/76508-alde-3010-boiler-system-design/ probably gives the best explanation.

Edited by Disco4

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We previously had the Alde in our Clubman and found it to be great once it had warmed up. Changed the van recently to one with Truma Isotherm heating. Must say that we are impressed with the Truma. Not too noisy and warms the van really quickly. Washroom not as hot as the rest of the van but by adjusting the flaps you can make it hotter. Even get warm air up the seat backs like Alde did.

One area where we really notice the difference is that with the Alde the air was warm above the seats so you had cold feet whereas the Truma warms that area so nice and warm tootsies.

Regards

Peter

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Depends on how much convector's have been fitted to the van. 400w per metre if i remember correctly. So if you have 5. 5kw gas power and 2. 2 or 3. 2 kw of electric totalling 7. 7 and 8. 7 kw, then you will need to have a full 20 metres of convector to dissipate the heat to be as efficient as possible. No point having a Ferrari engine running with a moped gearbox.

Anyone got a hybrid? You can shorten that 20m by installing Alde fan assisted convectors which are controlled by a speed switch. These would be ideal to reduce the initial heating time from cold.

Edited by limecc

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Hello there.

 

There are a few important points to note about the article that may not have been mentioned.

 

1. Both test installations included third party electric underfloor heating (exact specification not given).

2. The Truma system tested achieved the 40 °C difference (-20 to +20) in two hours.

3. The Alde system tested achieved the 40 °C difference (-20 to +20) in under three hours.

 

In their conclusions they state:

 

1. The Alde system was slower to reach the target temperature (+20 °C), but did so very quietly and with a more pleasant atmosphere.

2. The Truma system was quicker to reach the target temperature (+20 °C), at the cost of comparably loud noise and air turbulence.

 

Interestingly, they also note that the Alde system was equipped with only a small convector in the bathroom, which made that area cooler. Still within the 7 °C margin allowed by Grade 3 testing, but noteworthy nonetheless, and demonstrating that all heating systems rely greatly on installation for optimal performance.

 

That article was written in 2009, however.

 

The current generation of UK Alde-equipped caravans are world-class in cold chamber tests. CaravanTimes attended a cold chamber of the Bailey Unicorn 3, for example.

 

http://www. caravantimes. co. uk/video/makes/bailey/unicorn-series-iii/new-bailey-unicorn-tested-to-the-extreme-in-freezing-cold-test-chamber-$21384487. htm

Edited by Alde UK

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Thanks. . Why is 1) important? I imagine it would be the factory fitted electric underfloor heating pad that Hobby has been installing for years.

 

Assuming it's identical in both vans (which seems reasonable) it doesn't affect the comparison between the two heat up speeds, which is the subject of the report. That's the reason I didn't mention it in my summary.

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That article was written in 2009, however.

 

 

Well that explains one thing - couldn't understand why Hobby were installing the 3010 system in their vans. ...

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A personal opinion is that a combination of the two heating systems would be ideal for most. We do not have a full wet central heating system in our motorhome, but we do have a number of wall mounted radiators and these are great for maintaining a warm quiet interior. To initially warm the interior we use a gas fired blown air system, and this powerful, but noisy, system normally raises the temperature to the low 20's in a matter of minutes.

I should say that owing to trace heating on a frost-stat, the interior I never allowed to drop below zero, so not quite the same severe test as outlined by the OP.

Gordon.

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Thanks. . Why is 1) important? I imagine it would be the factory fitted electric underfloor heating pad that Hobby has been installing for years.

 

Assuming it's identical in both vans (which seems reasonable) it doesn't affect the comparison between the two heat up speeds, which is the subject of the report. That's the reason I didn't mention it in my summary.

Hello there.

 

It's significant insomuch as the article isn't a raw comparison of blown air heating and wet central heating. Rather a comparison of blown air and wet central heating in combination with electric underfloor heating.

 

The writers also commented on how they felt that the warmth of the floor was essential for their comfort, but that this was subjective. Here at Alde, we definitely think the Romans were onto something, and also rate underfloor heating highly for comfort.

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Alde

 

When can we look forward to the Alde Hypocaust for caravans?

 

Is this a prototype?

 

DeeTee

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Won't that affect the user payload???

 

Alde

 

When can we look forward to the Alde Hypocaust for caravans?

 

Is this a prototype?

 

DeeTee

 

:D:D:D

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Won't that affect the user payload???

 

 

:D:D:D

Easily uprated.

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:) At least no-one asked "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

 

Having experienced caravans and motorhomes in cold chamber tests down to -27, the Alde technical team have enjoyed underfloor heating first hand, so can understand the article writers' comments. Underfloor heating is probably one of those "You can never go back features".

 

We enjoyed reading Superpete's article on DIY underfloor heating on CaravanTalk, and hope the feature will become more common in caravans and motorhomes.

Edited by Alde UK

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Underfloor heating is most certainly a "never go back feature" for us. It is brilliant and by far the best thing we have ever done to our caravan.

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