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Incorrect Number Of Former Keepers On Cris Registration Document


Woolfiddler
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We recently bought our caravan privately and after roughly 6 weeks received the CRiS registration document. I noticed that (apart from incorrectly spelt name) the number of registered former keepers showed 3 instead of the expected 2. The original document in the name of the previous owners showed only 1 so I rang up CRiS to ask them why we'd been sent a new document showing 3. Where had the the additional former keeper come form?

 

CRiS confirmed to me the last keepers name, the people we had bought from, and said the additional keeper showed as "HPI" in their system. Apparently, the currently issued document was correct; that there were 3 legitimate former keepers (although she couldn't give me the names due to data protection). The problem has arisen, she told me, since the operation of CRiS was taken back "in house", presumably by the National Caravan Council, from HPI. In this process, apparently, errors were created which meant that the last seller's registration document incorrectly showed 1 instead of 2 former keepers, however I needn't worry as my document showed the true facts.

 

I'm not sure that what I've been told is strictly true since, after looking this up on the internet, it seems that the CRiS system had been back under the NCC's control over a year before the last, incorrect, document had been issued so I would have thought any issues over data accuracy would have been sorted out by then.

 

I don't suppose having an extra keeper on the registration ducment makes that much difference to the potential resale price of a caravan but it does raise questions about the integrity of the information provided on these "official" documents that we are paying for.

 

I wonder how many other registration documents have been issued incorrectly and gone unnoticed. ..

 

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What happens if an owner of a caravan having bought it second hand and not advising CRiS eventually sells it it might be a document then misses an owner out.

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The CRiS scheme is quasi official and is probably of more value to the trade than to ordinary caravan owners. I would hazard a guess that there are far more unregistered caravans than registered. Whilst all UK new caravans are CRiS registered, private sale changes of ownership may not be notified to the scheme.

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All UK built caravans are registered by Vin number since 1992 and owners then register they are the owner.

You can have problems insuring if they check you are not the registered owners


Dave

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CRiS Registration

All caravans produced since 1992 by NCC members, are recorded on CRiS under their unique 17 digit VIN. This VIN and the description of the caravan are recorded on the Touring Caravan Registration Document that is supplied by CRiS and sent to the caravan’s registered keeper.

All Caravans manufactured since August 1998 are also electronically tagged for added security with RFID tags. This tag contains the same 17 digit VIN number, which is also etched on the windows and die stamped onto the chassis.

From 1999, the CRiS programme was extended to cover older and imported caravans under the Pre ’92 scheme. This allows an owner to retrospectively register his caravan giving the same CRiS benefits as his newer counterparts.

Many insurance companies now require a caravan to be CRiS registered before they will issue a policy.

http://www. crislogin. co. uk/Dealers/home/crisregistration

I and other members have had an issue of CRiS and insurance over ownership when trying to get cover as insurance companies check with the database records if the caravan is stolen or written off.

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
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CRiS Registration

All caravans produced since 1992 by NCC members, are recorded on CRiS under their unique 17 digit VIN. This VIN and the description of the caravan are recorded on the Touring Caravan Registration Document that is supplied by CRiS and sent to the caravan’s registered keeper.

All Caravans manufactured since August 1998 are also electronically tagged for added security with RFID tags. This tag contains the same 17 digit VIN number, which is also etched on the windows and die stamped onto the chassis.

From 1999, the CRiS programme was extended to cover older and imported caravans under the Pre ’92 scheme. This allows an owner to retrospectively register his caravan giving the same CRiS benefits as his newer counterparts.

Many insurance companies now require a caravan to be CRiS registered before they will issue a policy.

http://www. crislogin. co. uk/Dealers/home/crisregistration

I and other members have had an issue of CRiS and insurance over ownership when trying to get cover as insurance companies check with the database records if the caravan is stolen or written off.

Dave

So?

I would not fail that and I haven't been refused and I haven't registered my ownership with CRiS.

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CRiS Registration

All caravans produced since 1992 by NCC members, are recorded on CRiS under their unique 17 digit VIN. This VIN and the description of the caravan are recorded on the Touring Caravan Registration Document that is supplied by CRiS and sent to the caravan’s registered keeper.

All Caravans manufactured since August 1998 are also electronically tagged for added security with RFID tags. This tag contains the same 17 digit VIN number, which is also etched on the windows and die stamped onto the chassis.

From 1999, the CRiS programme was extended to cover older and imported caravans under the Pre ’92 scheme. This allows an owner to retrospectively register his caravan giving the same CRiS benefits as his newer counterparts.

Many insurance companies now require a caravan to be CRiS registered before they will issue a policy.

http://www. crislogin. co. uk/Dealers/home/crisregistration

I and other members have had an issue of CRiS and insurance over ownership when trying to get cover as insurance companies check with the database records if the caravan is stolen or written off.

Dave

The above is from CRiS you wouldn't expect them to say anything different!

My caravan has never been CRiS registered and have insured it with the caravan club with no problems.

knarf

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David Park:

What happens if an owner of a caravan having bought it second hand and not advising CRiS eventually sells it it might be a document then misses an owner out.

 

Yes, that's an interesting point. If a subsequent buyer of a "de-registered" caravan wanted it registered with CRiS, would CRiS then issue a brand new document showing nil previous keepers or just skip the owner/seller transaction that hadn't been registered with them in a chain of owners, either way leading them to represent a truthful but rather misleading statement of past keepers on the registration document, ie truthful as to registered keepers, rather misleading regarding actual past owners which a lot of people might regard as synonymous? Or maybe it's just a distinction one should be aware of.

 

Tee Dee

The CRiS scheme is quasi official and is probably of more value to the trade than to ordinary caravan owners. I would hazard a guess that there are far more unregistered caravans than registered. Whilst all UK new caravans are CRiS registered, private sale changes of ownership may not be notified to the scheme.

 

Not sure what the real reason is regarding CRiS' change of keeper status in our case (since they seem to have inserted an owner between the previous sellers and us as buyers) but as the scheme is voluntary perhaps I should not be overly concerned. I still feel however that CRiS' explanation is a bit fuzzy.

 

Thank you for your replies.

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have you thought about if the previous owner has taken a loan out against the caravan, just like a log book loan, i may be completely on the wrong track, but just a thought.

mindy

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You mean if someone had defaulted on the loan and ownership had subsequently passed to the lender? The thing is, the additional owner has appeared in the chain between the people we bought from and us. CRiS wouldn't be able to pass the registration document on in my name without the loan company signing the sold-on section of the document, and they wouldn't do that if they wanted to recover their losses as we hadn't paid them any money. I think :unsure: . ..I hope!

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Another unregistered caravan here in my shed - was insured with Caravan Club, now insured with Saga - not a problem for them, not a problem for me.

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Many insurance companies now require a caravan to be CRiS registered before they will issue a policy.

 

Note the word is "Many" not all !!! (and no actual details of which companies)

 

Clever use of wording to imply rather than inform.

 

I feel that CRiS is a bit like wetting yourself in a dark suit. No one really notices but it gives you a warm feeling !!

If the system gets a few stolen caravans back for their owners then in my view it has to be considered a reasonable expense at less than the cost of a few gallons of Diesel.

I never bother with the number of former keepers for caravans or cars. You can have 4 very careful owners OR one who doesnt care in the slightest. I knew a chap who used to advertise cars as having had "One careful lady owner" which, if asked, he would say was TWO owners previously so the details would not be visible on the V5

Andy

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Woolfiddler,

You know who you bought the caravan from, and obviously you know your own name, so thinking laterally could the additional(?) owner actually have been the original caravan sales company in the event that the caravan may have not been entirely new stock. Why not ask the previous owner if they bought the caravan "new", or "unused" but a few months old.

If the latter then this may account for the additional owner being correctly added; if not then although you say it doesn't matter, these documents should show the correct information, otherwise what is their worth?

Gordon.

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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Thanks for your response, Gordon. However, in this case the caravan is 12 years old and the last owners only had it just over a year when we bought it a couple of months ago. I did wonder whether a dealer had been missed out in the past. Oh well, sounds like we'll never know as CRiS isn't providing any sensible explanation.

 

Yes, quite true Mr Plodd:

"I never bother with the number of former keepers for caravans or cars. You can have 4 very careful owners OR one who doesnt care in the slightest. "

It's in lovely condition considering its age.

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Thanks for your response, Gordon. However, in this case the caravan is 12 years old and the last owners only had it just over a year when we bought it a couple of months ago. I did wonder whether a dealer had been missed out in the past. Oh well, sounds like we'll never know as CRiS isn't providing any sensible explanation.

It's not unreasonable to expect the previous owner to know who he/she bought it from though. After all, from what you say it's only around 14 months ago???

Gordon.

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

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had mixed response's from customers with regards to insurance and whether or not it needed to be registered, some have found they have had to, others haven't.

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Many insurance companies now require a caravan to be CRiS registered before they will issue a policy.

 

Note the word is "Many" not all !!! (and no actual details of which companies)

 

Clever use of wording to imply rather than inform.

 

I feel that CRiS is a bit like wetting yourself in a dark suit. No one really notices but it gives you a warm feeling !!

If the system gets a few stolen caravans back for their owners then in my view it has to be considered a reasonable expense at less than the cost of a few gallons of Diesel.

I never bother with the number of former keepers for caravans or cars. You can have 4 very careful owners OR one who doesnt care in the slightest. I knew a chap who used to advertise cars as having had "One careful lady owner" which, if asked, he would say was TWO owners previously so the details would not be visible on the V5

Andy

 

 

25 caravans here . http://news. bbc. co. uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4217600. stm

 

 

Dave

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18

Yes 25 caravans--------------

BUT

There are 500000 caravans in the UK!!

1200 or 800 are recorded stolen every year depending on whether you take the Caravan Club statistics or others.

Now taking the 1200 figure that's about 4 a day to keep the tabloids going with bereft caravanners stories but the big picture is that caravan theft in the UK is miniscule in numerical terms.

That fact will not sell tracker alarms hitch locks wheel locks or caravan alarm systems of course!

Based on hard facts you have a minimal chance of getting your caravan pinched.

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