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perksm

From My Dashcam Friday Morning...

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Hi xtrailman. So you don't think that that it was a big deal braking the speed limit for towing in the UK and going into the third lane on a three lane motorway. If it had been a four lane motorway or section and without exceeding 60mph - that is one thing but to go into the third lane and exceed the 60mph maximum - Well !!!!!!

No I don't.

 

The caravan was stable so any danger was very limited.

I really would like to know what the towcar was though, to drive at those speeds requires a lot of confidence in the rig.

 

I did enjoy the footage, but I've seen caravans in the outer lane or even the middle exceeding speed limits before, and solo driving breaking the speeding limits daily.

 

Solo cars are routinely driving at 90mph on the motorways, yet we don't see many videos of those events do we.

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I don't have a dash cam, but I thought they came with GPS speed Stamps. Be good to know what speeds we were really talking about? As for anyone who's convinced that 60 mph (or more likely 55mph if going on the speedo) represents some kind of cut off point in terms of towing safety, I'd be interested to know why. I tow at 60mph (a real 60mph) as it's the limit and a good balance on economy, but i haven't noticed a sudden deterioration above that speed.

 

Bath University issued a research paper back in 2003 which came to the conclusion, based on the tests that they carried out, that every outfit has its own specific threshold speed above which instability will not recover by itself without some sort of corrective action. This speed is generally round about 50 to 60mph. It is quite possible to exceed that speed without anything happening, but only applies so long as the driving environment stays the same. Trouble would start if one were to have to take sudden action to avoid a hazard or there were a sudden bout of crosswind, for example. Below the threshold speed the outfit would recover without the need to intervene.

Edited by Lutz
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Can you get the reg no and give the video to the police? For everyone's sake!!

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Bath University issued a research paper back in 2003 which came to the conclusion, based on the tests that they carried out, that every outfit has its own specific threshold speed above which instability will not recover by itself without some sort of corrective action. This speed is generally round about 50 to 60mph. It is quite possible to exceed that speed without anything happening, but only applies so long as the driving environment stays the same. Trouble would start if one were to have to take sudden action to avoid a hazard or there were a sudden bout of crosswind, for example. Below the threshold speed the outfit would recover without the need to intervene.

So the limit should be lowered? ;)

My dash cam has no GPS, and deliberately bought one with out it, if you speed and get involved in an accident the footage could put you in trouble. I also don't have the sound on. But the correct time and date is essential IMO.

Ah. So the cam is only for catching other people out! Of course. Makes it no use for this infringement (apart from the lane 3 bit!)

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Bath University issued a research paper back in 2003 which came to the conclusion, based on the tests that they carried out, that every outfit has its own specific threshold speed above which instability will not recover by itself without some sort of corrective action. This speed is generally round about 50 to 60mph. It is quite possible to exceed that speed without anything happening, but only applies so long as the driving environment stays the same. Trouble would start if one were to have to take sudden action to avoid a hazard or there were a sudden bout of crosswind, for example. Below the threshold speed the outfit would recover without the need to intervene.

As said before the tow car was a clapped out Mk1 Mondeo with known suspension defects, stated in the report. Probably used because it was cheap and no real cost if written off.

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Bath University issued a research paper back in 2003 which came to the conclusion, based on the tests that they carried out, that every outfit has its own specific threshold speed above which instability will not recover by itself without some sort of corrective action. This speed is generally round about 50 to 60mph. It is quite possible to exceed that speed without anything happening, but only applies so long as the driving environment stays the same. Trouble would start if one were to have to take sudden action to avoid a hazard or there were a sudden bout of crosswind, for example. Below the threshold speed the outfit would recover without the need to intervene.

Seems to me that you are citing Newton's first law of motion or the law of inertia. :rolleyes:

 

Oddly, physics are rarely discussed when so-called safe tow speeds are being discussed on this forum.

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May be just stole it !

If he had just stolen it do you really think that he would drive in such a way that would draw Mr Plods attention to him?

Alan

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As said before the tow car was a clapped out Mk1 Mondeo with known suspension defects, stated in the report. Probably used because it was cheap and no real cost if written off.

It was an old c/e class saloon Mercedes.

5F9037AF-83A9-41AD-8E14-60C8A2BBDF30_zps

03C8D18C-6BF4-4B46-9C88-7D1A3222E88D_zps

Personally, I couldn't give a rats about the person and whether they want to break the law or kill themselves, I'm more worried about the fact that this person could kill other road users

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I must have been watching a different video. I saw a caravan in the 3rd lane

 

@ 55 seconds into the video

Me to !

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. .......I don't have a dash cam, but I thought they came with GPS speed Stamps. ......

Some do, some don't, some have an optional external GPS AE.

 

We have two Blackvue's, one has built in GPS, the other has an optional GPS module attached giving the choice of buying a slightly cheaper (£30) unit without it.

 

I specifically wanted GPS on ours, they are switchable on or off.

 

As well as displaying speed, very useful in the case of an accident when a third party claims you travelling over the speed limit and you weren't, our units also track your route travelled on Google maps.

 

Can work against you when the wife asks where you went last night, you tell her one place then she checks the playback and. ......:(

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Showed the video to my 12yr old daughter this morning. Her first observation was that he doesn't have any towing mirrors on. I didn't even spot the lack of them.

So that's 3 elements of the law broken.

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It was an old c/e class saloon Mercedes.

My post was referring to the Bath University test Lutz often quotes, not the tow car in the video which appears to have a reasonable suspension.

The art of towing at high speed is apart from cash, a decent well maintained tow car and a well balanced van, this the so called offender appears to have.

Was it doing 80mph maybe certainly 70mph, but seeing the OP spends his time at at an admitted 65mph by speedo it does appear that it may have been a speed burst, as it didn't disappear into the distance that quickly. Dashcams are great for showing what you want to portray, very few show the build up, they can't, they face forward mostly, OK it should not have been in lane 3 but it certainly didn't hold up anyone :)

Edited by Dartman 1

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My observations:

1. The driver with the caravan broke two UK laws.

(speeding and misuse of lane three)

2. The OP with the dash cam broke one UK law.

(speeding)

Taken in isolation should either be acceptable? You decide.

Gordon.

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My observations:

1. The driver with the caravan broke two UK laws.

(speeding and misuse of lane three)

2. The OP with the dash cam broke one UK law.

(speeding)

Taken in isolation should either be acceptable? You decide.

Gordon.

And no mirrors
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Or just looking at it from a different view point.

 

Or do you think its justified to speed after someone (exceeding the speed limit)already breaking the law, for no other reason but to get some more video.

 

My dash cam has no GPS, and deliberately bought one with out it, if you speed and get involved in an accident the footage could put you in trouble. I also don't have the sound on. But the correct time and date is essential IMO.

You have to give them permission to use your footage or they have to get a court order so that is another urban myth blown out of the water and you can relax. :D

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Whilst everyone else was commenting about the caravan driver, in all of you 3 posts up until this one your focus has been on your opinion of the short comings of the OP, and it is only in this post that you acknowledge and agree the errant actions of the caravanner.

 

That is why your posts come across as argumentative.

Let's get a few things clear here.

 

Just because it took 10 posts for someone (me) to mention the fact the OP was also breaking the law (to get some video footage) doesn't mean I condone what the caravanner is doing or I am trying to "be obstreperous for the sake of causing an argument!" I consider I made a valid point.

 

As far as I'm concerned post # 28 is the first confrontational post. It is sarcastic and adds nothing of value to the thread.

 

As to the indignation of some posters because there is a caravan in lane 3 of a 3 lane motorway, don't loose sight of the reason this is not allowed. It is because the speed limit of a towing vehicle is 60mph whereas it is 70 mph for solo vehicles so therefor the towing vehicle would slow down solo cars. However, because in this instance the towing vehicle is allegedly exceeding the national speed limit for solo cars by at least 10 mph it would not slow down any law abiding driver.

How unsafe was it? Well, the OP doesn't report seeing the outfit on it's side further up the motorway so that's open to speculation although clearly it's illegal on at least 2 counts.

 

I stand by my comments in #42.

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"As far as I'm concerned post # 28 is the first confrontational post. It is sarcastic and adds nothing of value to the thread"

Totally agree!

knarf

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I guess we now know who are the persons that may be doing the same thing when towing and are trying to jusitfy the actions of a very foolish person who has no regard for their safety or the safety of other road users? Some people are unbelievable! ;)

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I guess we now know who are the persons that may be doing the same thing when towing and are trying to jusitfy the actions of a very foolish person who has no regard for their safety or the safety of other road users? Some people are unbelievable! ;)

And how do you arrive at that conclusion?

knarf

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Not all caravan owners can be called caravanners IMO. Some could be called total idiots having no knowledge or regard for laws or other road users. On second thoughts that could be said of all classes of road users.

Total plonker IMO gives caravaners a bad name.

Caravanners already have a bad name and there is nothing we can do to change this perception of us, there will always be someone who will critisise our choice of hobby. I have some "friends" who constantly try and get me to get rid of our caravan.

I have driven on the A64 in Yorkshire at 60mph solo and nothing untoward happened, when we were travelling at 60 towing a caravan the idiots were cursing, pulling in early and braking, and someone once threw a half full bottle of water at us, luckily it hit the car windscreen and went sideways so missing the front window of the caravan.

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I guess we now know who are the persons that may be doing the same thing when towing and are trying to jusitfy the actions of a very foolish person who has no regard for their safety or the safety of other road users? Some people are unbelievable! ;)

 

Could you enlighten us?

 

I've not seen anyone advocating breaking the speed limit, towing in lane 3 or towing without mirrors. Did I miss something?

 

Not all caravan owners can be called caravanners IMO. Some could be called total idiots having no knowledge or regard for laws or other road users. On second thoughts that could be said of all classes of road users.

Caravanners already have a bad name and there is nothing we can do to change this perception of us, there will always be someone who will critisise our choice of hobby. I have some "friends" who constantly try and get me to get rid of our caravan.

I have driven on the A64 in Yorkshire at 60mph solo and nothing untoward happened, when we were travelling at 60 towing a caravan the idiots were cursing, pulling in early and braking, and someone once threw a half full bottle of water at us, luckily it hit the car windscreen and went sideways so missing the front window of the caravan.

 

Good post Flat_at. We do get singled out don't we? We're quite young caravanners and some of our friends are slowly coming round. We bumped into a couple we hadn't seen for a few years at the NEC - they'd decided to take the plunge.

 

Incidentally, were you in the York area about 3 weekends ago? You don't see many Kia Rio's towing but we saw one (could have been an Elddis) close to my parents place. It looked very well matched.

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Incidentally, were you in the York area about 3 weekends ago? You don't see many Kia Rio's towing but we saw one (could have been an Elddis) close to my parents place. It looked very well matched.

Hi Alfa Thank you for the compliment. No sorry that wasn't us. Nice to hear that other Rios are towing and I agree ours is a very good match. OOPS have we hijacked a thread? Sorry :)

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As I understand a caravanner is one who holidays in a caravan, to be a caravanner you do not need to tow a caravan, but rent, own or live in a caravan. Probably what actually gives towers of caravans a bad name is cruising along roads without a care in the world holding up those who are not on holiday as they slow to either look at scenery or excessively slow down for bends that can be taken at the legal limit with a van on the back.

Most of the motorists watching the object of all the complaints would consider that was the way to tow ( assuming they did not know the law, as I suspect they didn't, though maybe they didn't care) who knows, it didn't hold up traffic and his lane discipline was good, one thing is certain is that a caravan owner that is unable or unwilling to drive at the speed limit with a holier than thou attitude will make a song and dance of it on a caravan forum :D

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And how do you arrive at that conclusion?

knarf

Could you enlighten us?

 

I've not seen anyone advocating breaking the speed limit, towing in lane 3 or towing without mirrors. Did I miss something?

 

 

 

My understanding of Delta's post was that a few posters suggested that what the offender was doing was not particularly dangerous and that the outfit was stable.

 

In my opinion it was a little unstable (though massively better than my Bailey), and at those speeds unrecoverable should a problem arrise, (Lutz point #52), therefore dangerous.

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My understanding of Delta's post was that a few posters suggested that what the offender was doing was not particularly dangerous and that the outfit was stable.

 

In my opinion it was a little unstable (though massively better than my Bailey), and at those speeds unrecoverable should a problem arrise, (Lutz point #52), therefore dangerous.

Funny. I took it that he thought that some on here were "doing the same thing"

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