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Bailey Pegasus Damp Problems And Gas Locker


rovinmad
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I keep the trays in the front side lockers loose so that I can check for damp regularly. Has anyone looked into removing the big tray in the gas locker? A cursory inspection makes me think it would come out if I cut a small section of it out behind the gas pipe.

Has anyone had a go at this? I believe that bailey don't reckon the gas locker to be weatherproof yet if rain does get in there it can obviously track along into the side lockers.

Edited by rovinmad
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If it's sealed properly water shouldn't leak into anywhere else.

 

The gas locker floor can't be waterproofed, for obvious reasons, but very little seems to get in there and the gas locker door seems to be an excellent waterproof fit, one of the best bits of the van in my opinion.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Yes I've cut the part behind the pipe, this enables the tray to stand on end, mines like that now for the winter along with the side trays.

 

The gas locker tray can also be removed completely but you have to really bend it to remove, I've done it only once and took the opportunity to seal the screw holes.

 

None of my trays are screwed down in fact the replacement side trays have no screw holes, I sealed the gas locker one's with mastic and PVC tape.

 

I've also fitted plastic dome type self adhesive packers under all the trays to allow air flow.

Edited by xtrailman
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Thanks Xtrailman, that would certainly help. There's no attempt to seal round the tray so any water that runs in can certainly get under the tray. Did you find it wet at all? I occasionally get some water lying on the plywood floor of the off-side front locker, in the inner front corner. Seems to me it is soaking along the plywood from the gas locker.

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The water ingress comes from the front floor joint, typically the bolt locations, on my caravan.

 

I had mine resealed by both the dealer and Bailey, finally the dealer sealed the ingress on the third attempt.

 

Its been dry now for about two years, but I check for damp every month if I think to do it, usually after heavy rain.

 

Other known ingress points are door seals, poorly fitted sealed door frames, and the LED handles via the wires into the locker, dealer should seal the grab handles and the ENTIRE floor joint around the caravan.

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The water ingress comes from the front floor joint, typically the bolt locations, on my caravan. I had mine resealed by both the dealer and Bailey, finally the dealer sealed the ingress on the third attempt. Its been dry now for about two years, but I check for damp every month if I think to do it, usually after heavy rain. Other known ingress points are door seals, poorly fitted sealed door frames, and the LED handles via the wires into the locker, dealer should seal the grab handles and the ENTIRE floor joint around the caravan.

Mine was supposed to have been resealed at the front under guarantee. However if the trays are fixed in place, who knows how wet it is underneath? The 10 year guarantee is a mixed blessing really because I don't like to do too much myself and end up being blamed for any problems yet I don't know if it's OK without a fiddle round!

Edited by rovinmad
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Mine was supposed to have been resealed at the front under guarantee. However if the trays are fixed in place, who knows how wet it is underneath? The 10 year guarantee is a mixed blessing really because I don't like to do too much myself and end up being blamed for any problems yet I don't know if it's OK without a fiddle round!

 

If you remove the screws securing the gas locker tray, you can raise the tray up the copper gas pipe without cutting the tray, to inspect the ply floor. Key areas to check are also the front lockers floors . .. the floor area's around the interior wheel arch foam insulation (both sides including door entry) and your rear corners around any loo or shower, or bed box areas, again on the floor corners.

 

Sad old game really . . :(

Edited by Silverback
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Mine was supposed to have been resealed at the front under guarantee. However if the trays are fixed in place, who knows how wet it is underneath? The 10 year guarantee is a mixed blessing really because I don't like to do too much myself and end up being blamed for any problems yet I don't know if it's OK without a fiddle round!

You really can't rely on either the dealer or Bailey in effectively resealing the caravan.

On all three repairs my lockers where never returned with dry lockers.

 

I might be hard to believe but they don't take the time to dry out the locker floors, it took a few dry days and a few hours to dry out he lockers with a low powered hair dryer, too hot and the interior skin distorts, I've done it!

 

Then you can start doing your own damp checks, after the first dealer attempt all lockers after drying out still had ingress.

 

After the factory visit only the near side locker was still leaking.

 

Final visit the same dealer, Bailey gave instructions on an improved more costly method to cure the leak, which finally worked.

 

Unfortunately I couldn't say what exactly as I couldn't get that information, even though I was promised it in writing. But never did, after three enquires of asking I gave up on the Chesterfield dealer.

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I can believe what you say Xtrailman. I suspected the same at the time myself. I would like to remove the covers that go round the bottom of the four walls, covering the joint between wall and floor and put sealer over it. But I suspect that would be the end of my guarantee. Basically that is the flaw in the design. I am no engineer but even I can see that if you sit the walls on the floor it is a recipe for leaks. Had I realised that was the method of construction I would have gone elsewhere with my money. However having said that I have had good service out of the van so far.

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But at a cost XTM.

 

Bailey Pegasus S4 Verona £18,000

Swift Conqueror 570 £25,000

Swift Elegance 570 £27,000

 

It's fairly obvious why Bailey designed their original Alutech vans with the sides sitting on the edge of the floor, as the other way round would leave the sides unsupported along their bottom edges. That, in turn, would surely cause structural issues too. A rebated joint with the side skin overhanging the edge of the floor looks like the best compromise solution.

 

Whilst I recognise that in their high end range system Swift Group have a non-rotting floor and other improvements, a quick scan of their website didn't provide any info on their floor wall jointing system. A lot of stuff about floor and wall material composition and wall to roof jointing but nothing I could spot on wall to floor. Maybe I missed it.

 

The other Swift Group ranges have a plywood lined floor which will rot if damp can get in. Do they have the same wall to floor jointing system as the high end Swift ranges, whatever it is?

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Swift corner joint system on their Smart HT is called "SRIM" (corner jointing system).

 

 

post-37616-0-81626300-1445763447_thumb.jpg

 

 

Swifts Smart Plus builds have a floor with a GRP outer skin, a ply top section but the outer floor battens are as I understand are of composite material and not wood. With woodless upper shell and a GRP roof.

 

Factory list starting price for a Sprite built with Smart Plus is £13. 995

Edited by Silverback
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I saw that picture, but it didn't compute. Which bit is the floor and why is it photographed either sideways or upside down?

 

XTM specifically quoted Swift HT presumably as it has no wood in the walls, roof and floor and I chose a standard fixed bed layout to illustrate the price differentials. A basic Sprite with wood in the floor isn't a relevant comparator.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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I saw that picture, but it didn't compute. Which bit is the floor and why is it photographed either sideways or upside down?

 

XTM specifically quoted Swift HT presumably as it has no wood in the walls, roof and floor and I chose a standard fixed bed layout to illustrate the price differentials. A basic Sprite with wood in the floor isn't a relevant comparator.

 

The section with alloy honeycomb and the blue Styrofoam is the floor sandwich section, with the wall sitting into a hanger / bracketing channel, by the side of the floor and not sitting on top of it.

 

Well Smart Plus is now above Alu-Tech, in the sense that its floor only has wood on the interior top side, this ply isn't compromised by any floor to wall water ingress due to its "SRIM" design to bring the two together. The underside of the floor is GRP (Not GRP lined) so any drip back from water running down side wall or front or rear panel will not soak into it and I believe the outer battens of the sandwich floor are made of composite materials not "wooden battens" so if there is a breach, theoretically the main outer floor structure wont be compromised by rot of these battens.

Edited by Silverback
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But at a cost XTM.

 

Bailey Pegasus S4 Verona £18,000

Swift Conqueror 570 £25,000

Swift Elegance 570 £27,000

 

It's fairly obvious why Bailey designed their original Alutech vans with the sides sitting on the edge of the floor, as the other way round would leave the sides unsupported along their bottom edges. That, in turn, would surely cause structural issues too. A rebated joint with the side skin overhanging the edge of the floor looks like the best compromise solution.

 

Whilst I recognise that in their high end range system Swift Group have a non-rotting floor and other improvements, a quick scan of their website didn't provide any info on their floor wall jointing system. A lot of stuff about floor and wall material composition and wall to roof jointing but nothing I could spot on wall to floor. Maybe I missed it.

 

The other Swift Group ranges have a plywood lined floor which will rot if damp can get in. Do they have the same wall to floor jointing system as the high end Swift ranges, whatever it is?

Position 3. 21 shows the construction.

 

http://www. swifttv. co. uk/video/swift-elegance-and-sterling-continental-under-the-skin-of-smart-ht

 

Years ago walls on some makes would overlap the floor joint, I believe my Avondale was like that.

 

Bailey made a mistake in not having the outer skin overlapping the floor IMO.

Edited by xtrailman
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If you remove the screws securing the gas locker tray, you can raise the tray up the copper gas pipe without cutting the tray, to inspect the ply floor. Key areas to check are also the front lockers floors . .. the floor area's around the interior wheel arch foam insulation (both sides including door entry) and your rear corners around any loo or shower, or bed box areas, again on the floor corners.

 

Sad old game really . . :(

Just had a look at my gas locker. I found that the tray was not screwed down though it obviously has been at some time. I lifted it up as you described and found the floor underneath to be completely dry. There's no sign of it ever having been damp, so good news there.

 

However as I have said previously, there is water getting into the off-side front locker. It seems to be entering right in the front inside corner which is why I surmised it could have been coming from the gas locker. There's no sign of it running down from the grab handle bolts so I suppose that just leaves the front wall to floor joint.

 

If I could take off the front corner moulding and the A frame cover I presume that the joint would be accessible. Can anyone advise as to which sealant is likely to have been used and whether or not new will bond to old?

 

Don't suppose it could be coming from higher up e. g. a window seal and coming down through the wall itself? Perhaps I should do a bit of experimentation with the hose pipe!

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Just had a look at my gas locker. I found that the tray was not screwed down though it obviously has been at some time. I lifted it up as you described and found the floor underneath to be completely dry. There's no sign of it ever having been damp, so good news there.

 

However as I have said previously, there is water getting into the off-side front locker. It seems to be entering right in the front inside corner which is why I surmised it could have been coming from the gas locker. There's no sign of it running down from the grab handle bolts so I suppose that just leaves the front wall to floor joint.

 

If I could take off the front corner moulding and the A frame cover I presume that the joint would be accessible. Can anyone advise as to which sealant is likely to have been used and whether or not new will bond to old?

 

Don't suppose it could be coming from higher up e. g. a window seal and coming down through the wall itself? Perhaps I should do a bit of experimentation with the hose pipe!

That's the same as mine, dry under the gas locker. Your other damp is being drawn in from the floor corner and or bolt captives. A good indication is that the under floor in that corner or edge will be wet inside the corner clear plastic protector. Basically the waters being drawn in front the open corner wood joint and the water running down the wall to floor channel escaping through the captive bolt holes. This is water that when running down the side walls or front or rear panel, is then channelled to any corners by the floor, wall channel. That's why it either escapes through the captive bolt holes or runs to the open floor corners, including the wheel arch corners.

Edited by Silverback
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The other Swift Group ranges have a plywood lined floor which will rot if damp can get in. Do they have the same wall to floor jointing system as the high end Swift ranges, whatever it is?

 

http://www. caravantimes. co. uk/video/makes/swift/the-all-new-enhanced-swift-sprite-range-for-2016-$21385946. htm

 

The link shows for Caravan Times contains a video highlighting the Swift Smart Plus Floor / Wall /Roof design . .. Notice the GRP outer skin of the floor . .. The composite Battens on the outer edge of the floor frame and the thicker 9mm interior floor top ply.

 

These are on all Swift ranges other than higher build Smart HT versions and if you put that against the cost of a Swift Sprite starting from £13. 995, with a ten year manufactures ingress guarantee, I think I know who's leading the field in price and construction.

Edited by Silverback
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  • 1 month later...

Position 3. 21 shows the construction. http://www. swifttv. co. uk/video/swift-elegance-and-sterling-continental-under-the-skin-of-smart-htYears ago walls on some makes would overlap the floor joint, I believe my Avondale was like that. Bailey made a mistake in not having the outer skin overlapping the floor IMO.

I've been keeping a close eye on my front lockers what with all the rain we've been having. There is damp showing in the inside front corner of the offside front locker. I've established that it's not coming from the grab handles or the outside corner. On closer inspection I think it's associated with a bolt.

I can see that the front wall sits on a type of offset plate so that should throw any water inside the wall off to the outside. But the bolt obviously goes up through a hole in this plate and so breaches this in terms of waterproofness if that's a word.

So would putting more sealant on the outside of the floor to wall joint help? I can't see it, but presumably the wall plate is turned down on the outside so it won't be possible to put the sealant between the floor and the underside of the plate.

Is sealing it on the inside going to help? Won't that just make it track along and get in somewhere else?

I'm tempted to give that creeping crack cure stuff a go if it's still available.

I can't understand how the water is getting under the plate in the first place.

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Post 272 did have a video, but it is no longer available, however the thread may be worth reading.

 

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/42501-alu-tech-body-shell-any-leaks/page-14?&hl=alu%20tech%20leaks&

 

When the dealer repairs they remove the front bumpers and apply RV51, but there perfected the method after repairing they said hundreds, that was Robinson caravans at Chesterfield.

 

I would give them a call for tips if i was you.

My ingress was ONLY from the floor bolt areas, these are identified via the plastic nut holders.

Edited by xtrailman
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Post 272 did have a video, but it is no longer available, however the thread may be worth reading. http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/42501-alu-tech-body-shell-any-leaks/page-14?&hl=alu%20tech%20leaks&When the dealer repairs they remove the front bumpers and apply RV51, but there perfected the method after repairing they said hundreds, that was Robinson caravans at Chesterfield. I would give them a call for tips if i was you. My ingress was ONLY from the floor bolt areas, these are identified via the plastic nut holders.

Thanks for the info.

I reckon the damp in my van is coming from the bolt nearest to the wall between the offside locker and the gas locker. That's why I initially thought it was coming under the divider from the gas locker.

So as I understand it the water will be getting between the bottom of the wall and the stepped wall plate. Then it gets down the bolt and comes out on the floor.

Why I'm wary of sending the van in for repair is I don't want it back with the locker floors painted black and the trays glued down. I would imagine that would seal damp in.

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Mine came back with new trays with no screw holes so totaly water proof, and trays are a loose fit.

Wood is treated but i see that as a positive.

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Mine came back with new trays with no screw holes so totaly water proof, and trays are a loose fit.

Wood is treated but i see that as a positive.

So presumably you'd say to go ahead then if I get the option.

 

When you say the wood is treated, how is it it treated? Others make it sound like the old fashioned car paint-on underseal stuff. If I was doing it myself I'd go for something that breathed.

 

It's lashing down again with rain here at the moment and I'm just wondering if a cover would be the answer though it's not something I would relish having to put on. My friends have it sorted though, their caravan stays over in France in a barn and only comes out for their hols. Should last for ever barring a fire!

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Bailey used the same black coating as used under the caravan floor outside.

Bits in the corners Bailey missed dealer used what look like gloss paint.

 

I must admit checking my lockers with the damp meter will be my first job tomorrow, providing this rain ever stops.

 

PS i've noticed my shed door is dripping water on the inside, it never ends does it, so another job when it dries out.

Edited by xtrailman
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