Jump to content

Fire Safety/6 Metre Rule


Humphrey
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://file:///C:/Users/Christine/Downloads/Six-Meter-Rule-Page-3. pdf

 

Reference the title Totally agree there should be a fire gap between pitches on caravan/camping sites.

 

Currently on one of the sites which has this 6 metre rule, We are on a hardstanding pitch with caravan and awning and had a small windbreak up on the grass adjacent to our hardstanding We were asked to take it down as the windbreak infringes the 6 metre rule. We removed the windbreak, no problem. Looking at the clubs website, what do we find you are allowed to put a car in that 6 metre gap as long as there are 3 metres between the car and the neighbours caravan/awning which is ridiculous as a car is more flammable that a windbreak obviously with the amount of electronics and fuel on the vehicle as apposed to a windbreak. To press home the argument, I would suggest that they listen to the latest news regarding the Vauxhall Zafira 2004-2014, to date 130 of these cars have for no apparent reason burst into flames and distroyed the said vehicle. Just recently, allegedly, a woman had to rescue her children from one of these cars. Vauxhall know the vehicles are catching fire and to date no idea why and there has been no recall on these vehicles. Owners have been advised to take their vehicles to their dealer if not happy with the situation. Bearing this in mind who would want one of these vehicles parked 3 metres from their caravan/tent/awning (or any other vehicles).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The need for a firebreak is probably beyond doubt, unfortunately that is about as far as cn be said with certainty. To pin it down any further you end up with loads of "shoulds" and "probablys", turn this into rules, add a few people who try to impose the rules unthinkingly andthis kind of confusion becomes almost inevitable.

 

I for one can see no sensible reason for banning a windbreak from this gap and then allowing a car to be parked there! Then again, how many people put a windbreak in to shelter their bbq or firepit?

 

Not to mention carelessly thrown cigarette ends! All you can realistically do is try to reduce the risks to an acceptable level and recognise that not everone will agree with your version of common sense.

Edited by Stevan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A windbreak is far more vulnerable to brief external sources of ignition (discarded fag end, an ember from a BBQ etc) than a vehicle is. Plus should a windbreak catch fire from one of the above sources it will be fully engulfed (and be a danger to anything alongside) in seconds.

 

So, perverse as it seems, i think whoever it was who requested the windbreak be removed had a very valid point and I would support them.

 

It's a good job these people don't look at some of the Aires in France when they have a lot of motorhomes present. I have been on one where I could have lent out of my open lounge window and removed the salt cruet from the motorhome parked alongside, I couldn't fully open my door it was THAT close!! That is not uncommon on some of the Aires located at popular locations.

 

Andy

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The CC's "interpretation" of spacing rules seems to differ from that used at many other sites, with no adverse comment from local authorities.

 

Some CC sites with hardstandings looked like car parks, now they all do.

 

I wonder if people using a windbreak on a beach, with a BBQ, are required to have a 6m gap to the next family ?

Edited by Black Grouse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we should all remember that whilst on a campsite we are sharing the communal areas with other campers. The strip of grass between hard standing pitches is not actually there for the use of any particular camper. We once had a next door neighbour set their table and chairs out on the grass between our pitch and theirs. They were sitting no more than 18" from our caravan window. This was on a site with the 20ft rule. People don't really want other campers getting too close and don't want others peoples wind breakers etc in their face either. Some people have an aversion to unneccesary windbreakers especially when they are used to turn pitches into stockades. As far as the rule to permit cars to be parked within the 20ft. Parking a car in the 20ft gap involves very little presence of the driver and passengers which may disturb the neighbours, and the car can be moved quite quickly away from the unlikely event of a fire in the adjacent neighbours awning. I have never known a car fire on a campsite in 50 years of camping, so I think the probability of one bursting into flames next to my awning are pretty slim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://file:///C:/Users/Christine/Downloads/Six-Meter-Rule-Page-3. pdf

 

Reference the title Totally agree there should be a fire gap between pitches on caravan/camping sites.

 

Currently on one of the sites which has this 6 metre rule, We are on a hardstanding pitch with caravan and awning and had a small windbreak up on the grass adjacent to our hardstanding We were asked to take it down as the windbreak infringes the 6 metre rule. We removed the windbreak, no problem. Looking at the clubs website, what do we find you are allowed to put a car in that 6 metre gap as long as there are 3 metres between the car and the neighbours caravan/awning which is ridiculous as a car is more flammable that a windbreak obviously with the amount of electronics and fuel on the vehicle as apposed to a windbreak. To press home the argument, I would suggest that they listen to the latest news regarding the Vauxhall Zafira 2004-2014, to date 130 of these cars have for no apparent reason burst into flames and distroyed the said vehicle. Just recently, allegedly, a woman had to rescue her children from one of these cars. Vauxhall know the vehicles are catching fire and to date no idea why and there has been no recall on these vehicles. Owners have been advised to take their vehicles to their dealer if not happy with the situation. Bearing this in mind who would want one of these vehicles parked 3 metres from their caravan/tent/awning (or any other vehicles).

Not sure what you've heard or seen, but the info I've heard is that these vehicles which have ignited have aftermarket parts rather than Vauxhall parts fitted.

 

Now I don't really know the truth and I'd guess that neither do you so it's probably not a good idea to chuck hearsay and secondhand news about until you really know what's going on. I'd also suggest that the Daily Mail or the BBC aren't the ideal sources for accurate nfo either

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who has any doubts about the need for the 6m rule should look at pictures of the recent caravan fire on the CC's Morn Hill site.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One can envisage a windbreak, the more so the ones made of synthetic fabrics would be quite good fire conduits?

The same might be said for guys but these are allowed to be across the fire break and even interlaced pitch to pitch!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's easy to imagine a car containing fuel to be a significant fire risk, but in my days as a Firefighter, it was unusual to have one involved when adjacent to an open fire, unless time of exposure and intensity was significant. Untreated flammable material however is a greater risk to probable ignition sources as mentioned above.

 

Both risk are fairly low, although fire on a caravan site is always going to be a frightening prospect so I wouldn't argue the point with the proprietors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fire regulations are based on spread of fire through radiated heat and corners can be closer. Materials like awning have a fast burn rate so it does not radiate much heat and your not suppose to sleep in them.

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Materials like awning have a fast burn rate so it does not radiate much heat and your not suppose to sleep in them.

 

 

Dave

 

My Isabella Magnum annex was specifically sold as a bedroom with a bedroom inner liner, as are the later versions.

I believe it was that unsound assumption that annexes are not habitable units that caused the CC the total rethink in inter pitch spacing and what can constitute an annex pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what you've heard or seen, but the info I've heard is that these vehicles which have ignited have aftermarket parts rather than Vauxhall parts fitted.

 

Now I don't really know the truth and I'd guess that neither do you so it's probably not a good idea to chuck hearsay and secondhand news about until you really know what's going on. I'd also suggest that the Daily Mail or the BBC aren't the ideal sources for accurate nfo either

The indication from Watchdog was that the Zafira's at risk are only those with manual Aircon and the ignition needs to be on, whether or not there are after market parts involved was not clear though Vauxhaul indicated it may be, as the same vehicle is made under the Opel brand, is there a problem on the continent? not unknown for a manufacturer to deny a problem under one badge whilst compensating under another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fire regulations are based on spread of fire through radiated heat and corners can be closer. Materials like awning have a fast burn rate so it does not radiate much heat and your not suppose to sleep in them.

 

Dave

Not supposed to sleep in awnings. Does that apply similarly to tents?. They also tend to burn very fast.

 

As previously noted, awning manufacturers believe that sleeping in awnings is perfectly acceptable.

Need more storage space or an extra bedroom in the awning? Isabella offers various solutions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand and read CC rules. The caravans have to be 6m apart. However the distance between an awning and the next pitch is 3m.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 6m usually only applies to living / sleeping units.

Our doors on the "wrong" side and the CC have no issues with us pitching nose out and putting an awning up. This can leave less than 3m between the neighbouring awning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I put a lighted match to a windbreak it is very likely that the windbreak will catch fire very quickly. If I put a lighted match to a vehicle body I am more likely to burn my fingers than for the vehicle to catch fire.

 

http://file:///C:/Users/Christine/Downloads/Six-Meter-Rule-Page-3. pdf

 

Reference the title Totally agree there should be a fire gap between pitches on caravan/camping sites.

 

Currently on one of the sites which has this 6 metre rule, We are on a hardstanding pitch with caravan and awning and had a small windbreak up on the grass adjacent to our hardstanding We were asked to take it down as the windbreak infringes the 6 metre rule. We removed the windbreak, no problem. Looking at the clubs website, what do we find you are allowed to put a car in that 6 metre gap as long as there are 3 metres between the car and the neighbours caravan/awning which is ridiculous as a car is more flammable that a windbreak obviously with the amount of electronics and fuel on the vehicle as apposed to a windbreak. To press home the argument, I would suggest that they listen to the latest news regarding the Vauxhall Zafira 2004-2014, to date 130 of these cars have for no apparent reason burst into flames and distroyed the said vehicle. Just recently, allegedly, a woman had to rescue her children from one of these cars. Vauxhall know the vehicles are catching fire and to date no idea why and there has been no recall on these vehicles. Owners have been advised to take their vehicles to their dealer if not happy with the situation. Bearing this in mind who would want one of these vehicles parked 3 metres from their caravan/tent/awning (or any other vehicles).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 6m usually only applies to living / sleeping units.

Our doors on the "wrong" side and the CC have no issues with us pitching nose out and putting an awning up. This can leave less than 3m between the neighbouring awning.

Under their new "rules" on pitching my understanding is that should not be the case; unless we with our continental van are being instructed incorrectly.

We recently were told we could pitch where we want as long as our awning etc is 6 metres or more from a neighbours awning/van even awning to awning, or across the pitch should we choose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the best of my knowledge the Caravan Development Act does not define distance between caravans. Councils adapt the regulations to their specific requirements and generally they adapt to static caravans and define the distance between static caravans as being 6m. I have yet to come across one where the distance between touring caravans is mentioned.

However is a touring caravan static when it is parked up? If so then how do caravan storage locations get around the 6m regulation as generally caravans on a storage site are about 1m apart. again no mention of storage sites in the regulations. I think that the 6m rule is a good safety rule, but at times common sense needs to be applied as how can a windbreak be different to an awning as long as the windbreak is not outside the pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Under their new "rules" on pitching my understanding is that should not be the case; unless we with our continental van are being instructed incorrectly.

We recently were told we could pitch where we want as long as our awning etc is 6 metres or more from a neighbours awning/van even awning to awning, or across the pitch should we choose.

With C&CC However. ... our in-laws have a 'van with the door on the "wrong" side too - they were wanting to pitch nose-in as to not upset the balance of the site re awnings (Keswick) and were told they could not, due to fire-regs and if the 'van needed to be removed from site quickly!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With C&CC However. ... our in-laws have a 'van with the door on the "wrong" side too - they were wanting to pitch nose-in as to not upset the balance of the site re awnings (Keswick) and were told they could not, due to fire-regs and if the 'van needed to be removed from site quickly!

Just how do they do that if an Alko wheel lock is fitted ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the best of my knowledge the Caravan Development Act does not define distance between caravans. Councils adapt the regulations to their specific requirements and generally they adapt to static caravans and define the distance between static caravans as being 6m. I have yet to come across one where the distance between touring caravans is mentioned.

However is a touring caravan static when it is parked up? If so then how do caravan storage locations get around the 6m regulation as generally caravans on a storage site are about 1m apart. again no mention of storage sites in the regulations. I think that the 6m rule is a good safety rule, but at times common sense needs to be applied as how can a windbreak be different to an awning as long as the windbreak is not outside the pitch.

 

 

The description "caravan" is a structure that can be moved .

 

Local authorities put the 6m regulation as part of the conditions of licence .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just how do they do that if an Alko wheel lock is fitted ?

Yep. But they insisted it had to happen. Poss just another jobs-worth warden.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

The description "caravan" is a structure that can be moved .

 

Local authorities put the 6m regulation as part of the conditions of licence .

 

 

Dave

Local authorities don't licence CL/CS sites - under the Caravan Development Act, certain organisations are empowered to issue exemption certificates for sites up to 5 caravans, there's about 100 organisations including CC and C&CC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose both main clubs take the view that whether legislated or not as the LAs etc adopt the 6 metre separation figure, so should they. Should there be a life changing fire incident where the lack of distance was a contributing factor, any resulting litigation would tend to focus on negligence in having not used accepted practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...