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Vw Emissions Scandal , Does Anyone Actually Care If Some Mega Corp Is Fiddling The Books?

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Does any average Joe actually car that their VW emissions might not be what are claimed?

I mean, my car allgedly does 69 to the gallon but I have never seen it, nor do I expect to.

In my opinion it's just to be expected nowadays that the public get fed a diet of half-truths from most company's.

Anyone demanding VW take their car back?

 

Volkswagen UK has responded to our questions with a short but significant answer: "UK cars are not part of the current action in the US and, as far as we are aware, no EU Volkswagen products are affected."

 

Oh well nothing to worry about in the UK then!! . ..........................or is there!! ;)

 

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I am interested to see what CAP and Glasses do to values next month. Not a lot I expect, as you say most people are indifferent about what damage may be happening if they cannot actually see it.

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I think most major manufacturers will either be angry because they missed out not doing it or "twitching "because they are doing it

Edited by HDom
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If 'fiddling the books' is the only way the manufacturers can fulfil the emissions requirements at reasonable cost to the consumer I can see political pressure being brought to make life difficult for diesel engines altogether. I've heard first comments to that effect in the media. Then I'm sure quite a number of people are going to be concerned.

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I care if VAG are cheating the treasury out of many thousands of pounds of VED. I have to pay my share of tax, why should owners of VAG cars be let off!

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I care if VAG are cheating the treasury out of many thousands of pounds of VED. I have to pay my share of tax, why should owners of VAG cars be let off!

It's nothing to do with CO2, so nothing that affects VED.

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I think most car makers are doing the same and if not then vw have gone seriously wrong in there technology down the line somewhere. to Joe public it's totally irrelevant we have to just ride what ever happens as a consequence we won't actually get a say no point worrying.

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Don't drive a VW but wouldn't stop me buying one. I can't say emissions have any bearing on what towcar I buy.

Edited by David55
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I think most car makers are doing the same and if not then vw have gone seriously wrong in there technology down the line somewhere. to Joe public it's totally irrelevant we have to just ride what ever happens as a consequence we won't actually get a say no point worrying.

 

Whatever the outcome of the VW scandal, it's going to cost the consumer money, whether it be more expensive emissions equipment or higher mainentance costs. If we're lucky, it's only going to cost VAG owners, but I have a feeling that's rather naive.

Don't drive a VW but wouldn't stop me buying one. I can't say emissions have any bearing on what towcar I buy. I don't believe in global warming either to me its just a natural change.

 

In the case of diesels it has nothing to do with global warming but with carcinogenic emissions of fine soot particles.

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Does any average Joe actually car that their VW emissions might not be what are claimed?

I mean, my car allgedly does 69 to the gallon but I have never seen it, nor do I expect to.

In my opinion it's just to be expected nowadays that the public get fed a diet of half-truths from most company's.

Anyone demanding VW take their car back?

 

Volkswagen UK has responded to our questions with a short but significant answer: "UK cars are not part of the current action in the US and, as far as we are aware, no EU Volkswagen products are affected."

 

Oh well nothing to worry about in the UK then!! . ..........................or is there!! ;)

 

On a long journey my car computer shows 69 miles to the gallon. Drops to around 45 when towing.

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Aside from the medical concerns it was stated on the news yesterday that the average cost per vehicle to acheive Euro 6 emissions was 1500. If car manufacturers are charging you for that then not delivering it then maybe you should be concerned.

Edited by Towtug

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It's nothing to do with CO2, so nothing that affects VED.

I think it's a bit early in the investigate to say it's got nothing to do with CO2. It's a complex chemical reaction, and changing one part is bound to have effects elsewhere.

 

I can forsee customers getting software upgrades that decrease the power of their cars to reduce emissions, so not getting what they paid for.

 

US drivers were commenting in the news today that they paid a premium for a 'clean' engine and they didn't get that.

 

As LUTZ writes above, this is about carcinogenic emissions. So in answer to the title of this thread of posts, lots of people care about this.

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Manufacturers telling half truths. ...whatever next. ..someone claiming that their brand new manufacturing process for caravans will never leak. ..Ahem!

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I think it's a bit early in the investigate to say it's got nothing to do with CO2. It's a complex chemical reaction, and changing one part is bound to have effects elsewhere.

 

I can forsee customers getting software upgrades that decrease the power of their cars to reduce emissions, so not getting what they paid for.

 

US drivers were commenting in the news today that they paid a premium for a 'clean' engine and they didn't get that.

 

As LUTZ writes above, this is about carcinogenic emissions. So in answer to the title of this thread of posts, lots of people care about this.

DPF/particulates is a totally different issue to the NOx issue that VW has screwed up on. ALL diesels prior to Euro 5 pump out carcinogenic particulates - maybe these should all be taken off the road.

 

To deal with Excess NOx, the likely effect of any software upgrades for Adblue-equipped vehicles is to use more Adblue and a higher risk of Adblue equipment failure which will need to be addressed by VW, neither of which is likely to increase CO2 output or increase fuel consumption - for the earlier vehicles without Adblue, having such a system fitted would be an expensive solution so likely to be dealt with by a buy-back scheme.

 

For EU cars, it's not impossible that a software update is required but that'll just increase Adblue consumption so some compensatory offer may need to be made. .

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Optimising an engine performance profile to help pass various test parameters is nothing new - been happening for years.

 

Example - the Ducati 996 I owned had a yawning hole in the torque curve (can't remember the rpm), and a ridiculously high final drive ratio. I believe it was to help the V twin engine pass certain emission and noise tests. Easily 'fixed' with an aftermarket chip and smaller engine sprocket.

 

I honestly don't believe the testing authorities were or are unaware of these practices. Maybe a modern day Ralph Nader has got himself in a position to chuck a pebble in the pond.

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DPF/particulates is a totally different issue to the NOx issue that VW has screwed up on. ALL diesels prior to Euro 5 pump out carcinogenic particulates - maybe these should all be taken off the road.

 

To deal with Excess NOx, the likely effect of any software upgrades for Adblue-equipped vehicles is to use more Adblue and a higher risk of Adblue equipment failure which will need to be addressed by VW, neither of which is likely to increase CO2 output or increase fuel consumption - for the earlier vehicles without Adblue, having such a system fitted would be an expensive solution so likely to be dealt with by a buy-back scheme.

 

For EU cars, it's not impossible that a software update is required but that'll just increase Adblue consumption so some compensatory offer may need to be made. .

 

Thanks for putting me right on this.

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People including UK VW owners legally chip their cars to get more power etc so what is the difference? Prior to a MOT the chip can be removed and then reinstated after the MOT. I guess this happens on a regular basis.

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Roll on Euro 7 in 2020 . .........RIP diesels ?

 

 

Dave

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People including UK VW owners legally chip their cars to get more power etc so what is the difference? Prior to a MOT the chip can be removed and then reinstated after the MOT. I guess this happens on a regular basis.

More stringent testing will probably require the banning of remaps, chips, EGR delete and DPF removal.

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More stringent testing will probably require the banning of remaps, chips, EGR delete and DPF removal.

In reality all of the above are questionable legally already. The UK C and U always says things like "no one shall use or permit to be used" . ...etc , section 61 deals with emissions and covers changes to the vehicle presented for conformity of production inspection. Basically if you do something that changes its emissions from the standard vehicle you could commit an offence. We have a pretty laid back approach to this though in the UK and tend only to concentrate of prosecutions where the emission change is obvious IE Smoke or Oily or noxious substances that have an immediate and detrimental affect on other road users. This is largely born out of the difficulty in conducting testing at the roadside. The same goes for fitting aftermarket exhausts that either change the emissions or more likely increase the sound level. This is also covered by the C and U but rarely if ever is anyone ever prosecuted under it.

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I still wonder if what they have done is strictly illegal . .

 

AFAIK (And that, I admit isn't much) the regulations state that readings will be taken under specific conditions . . If the tests are made under those conditions and give the required values . . then they are legal.

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Car emissions have been significantly reduced over recent decades. As the car was blamed by the tree hungers and money hungry governments for the declining state of the environment, surely we should see some improvement? No improvement means to me that the car was not to blame in the first place.

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In reality all of the above are questionable legally already. The UK C and U always says things like "no one shall use or permit to be used" . ...etc , section 61 deals with emissions and covers changes to the vehicle presented for conformity of production inspection. Basically if you do something that changes its emissions from the standard vehicle you could commit an offence. We have a pretty laid back approach to this though in the UK and tend only to concentrate of prosecutions where the emission change is obvious IE Smoke or Oily or noxious substances that have an immediate and detrimental affect on other road users. This is largely born out of the difficulty in conducting testing at the roadside. The same goes for fitting aftermarket exhausts that either change the emissions or more likely increase the sound level. This is also covered by the C and U but rarely if ever is anyone ever prosecuted under it.

I don't disagree - but unless aftermarket changes are policed more thoroughly, it'll be a bit pointless being more stringent with manufacturers.

 

Policing aftermarket changes will probably have more effect in USA where it's regarded fashionable to modify light trucks to produce "rolling coal" by a switch in the cab that injects oil into the exhaust and produces impenetrable black smoke.

 

The USA also needs to end the anomaly where RAM trucks, part of FCA-Chrysler, gets away with emission levels similar to VW but made legal by paying the fine to EPA upfront!

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Roll on Euro 7 in 2020 . .........RIP diesels ?

 

 

Dave

It would be interesting to know how many petrol driven cars can offer the same grunt as a diesel and also maintain the emmission levels? Our JeepGC which does not have a DPF is 10 years old and we cannot afford to replace it so what will we have to do? Give up on our one and only pastime? Seriously I doubt if any government will try and force diesels off the road as the knock on effect will be catastrophic and a possible solution is one no government could afford.

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I still wonder if what they have done is strictly illegal . .

 

AFAIK (And that, I admit isn't much) the regulations state that readings will be taken under specific conditions . . If the tests are made under those conditions and give the required values . . then they are legal.

The problem is that the tests are supposed to be a representative snapshot of the vehicles use. In this case if what has been reported is correct they have apparently deliberately introduced a software "switch" that produces an acceptable result whilst under test but is no where near the actuality. You may well be correct that they have complied with the test but the reason for the regulation is also written, ie "to reduce global vehicle emissions" and if you ride roughshod over that point you would be in breach of the directive/ regulation.

 

More than this if a commercial or private operator has bought vehicles to work in a low emission zone, they themselves are likely to be in breach of pollution laws in just the same way as if they failed to maintain them properly. Of course this is unlikely to happen in practice, but random checks are now carried out on construction plant and other vehicles working in Low emission areas.

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