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Weighbridge Puzzle


Benchillian
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Any help with this would be very welcome.

 

Been caravanning for a year. We've amassed a lot of gear, but weighed it all carefully as we went and kept a tally, to keep within MTPLM. (Or so we thought.) We carry heavy stuff, such as awning, in the car.

 

I took our Bailey U2 Cadiz to the local weighbridge today and was shocked to get a reading 242kg above MTPLM.

 

Here are the relevant spec figs for the Cadiz.

 

MIRO 1344kg

MTPLM 1498kg

Payload 154kg

 

Weighbridge reading was 1740kg!

 

I included battery (24kg) and motor mover (27kg) when calculating actual payload weights.

 

I subtracted carpets (10kg) and table (9kg) which we don't use, as well as 7. 5kg for the Calorlite gas cylinder which that much lighter than the 18kg allowed in MIRO. Bailey told me everything supplied with the van was included in MIRO.

 

Re-weighed everything again today and found I actually had 30kg more than I thought. Tested spring balance and it's accurate. I've managed to get rid of the excess, now.

 

Here's my question. Why does the weighbridge say I'm 242kg overweight when my calculations say 30kg?

 

Never used a weighbridge before. Are they accurate?

 

Is the Bailey spec of 1344kg MIRO accurate?

 

Have I missed something obvious?

 

Thanks.

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Have you weighed it empty of as much as you can?

 

I know weighbridges have their inaccuracies, but 200kg is out of calibration if it is wrong.

 

If you can empty it of anything that's not bolted down, and then go and weigh it, you should, hopefully, arrive at a figure that is close to the MIRO. Might be worth trying another weighbridge or seeing if someone as a Reich CwC you can borrow.

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Most council weighbridges will be fairly accurate, I will say that Baileys are wrong or there is something you have missed or both.

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Anything like 10kg of water in the boiler?

 

Your other option is to empty the caravan totally, weigh it, and restart your process of calculations.

 

Russ

Online blog and travels, although sometimes there is a lack of travel due to work!

 

It's an uncharted sea, it's an unopened door but you've got to reach out and you've got to explore.

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You must weight the caravan empty, then you know what's left for loading.

I think I've read of a 3% margin for the declared MIRO weight.

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Commercial weighbridges are normally very accurate indeed. ..Trading Standards tolerances are small.

 

Geoff

Kia Sorento KX-1 CRDI 4WD towing an Elddis Affinity 530

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It does seem a lot, I would be tempted to remove everything that wasn't in the caravan when you bought it and try again, I wouldn't remover mover or battery just deduct the weight as you've done.

 

I'm in the process of buying a couple of calor lites to keep the weight down in our caravan. However I let out the Yorkshire war cry when I saw the price, HOW MUCH!!!! :o

Paul B

. .......Mondeo Estate & Elddis Avanté 505 (Tobago)

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I have yet to come across a published MIRO that is anything like correct. My own caravan has a manufacturer's stated MIRO of 1480kg and yet, after fitting battery, spare wheel, Fiamma ZIP awning, inverter, and a few items that will always remain in the caravan, it showed 1740kg on the weighbridge. All those things combined never weigh the difference between 1740 and 1480kg. Good thing I ordered it with a factory uprated 1800kg axle instead of the standard 1600kg one.

Edited by Lutz
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Thanks for all comments above - and so early in the morning!

 

I think I'll get re-weighed at another site to see how it compares, then try as suggested and re-weigh empty.

 

If yesterday's reading was right, I'd have to take everything out of the van and remove the wheels as well to get down to the MTPLM.

 

I'm confident about the actual weight of gear I've put in the van, and have drained all water out of the system. M

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I shouldn't happen now under Type-Approval but 30-40 years ago it wasn't unheard of for magazines/clubs to test a caravan and find that the empty weight was already higher than the gross weight !!!

 

Variation in moisture content of wooden parts used to be a major culprit but wood is used far less often nowadays.

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I shouldn't happen now under Type-Approval but 30-40 years ago it wasn't unheard of for magazines/clubs to test a caravan and find that the empty weight was already higher than the gross weight !!!

 

Variation in moisture content of wooden parts used to be a major culprit but wood is used far less often nowadays.

 

The wood perhaps not, but the insulation can absorb about 15kg of humidity (not to be confused with damp).

 

Besides, the way MIRO is defined under the latest amendment to the regulations (1230/2012/EC), it applies to the base model in standard trim, without any factory-fitted options. The ex-works weight is not MIRO but is now referred to as 'actual mass of the vehicle'.

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Did you get the caravan weighed on its own or attached to the your car? If you weighed it on its own then you can deduct 70-100Kgs off that weight as it will be shifted to the car depending on your nose weight.

 

I think that's how it works? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Any help with this would be very welcome.

 

Been caravanning for a year. We've amassed a lot of gear, but weighed it all carefully as we went and kept a tally, to keep within MTPLM. (Or so we thought.) We carry heavy stuff, such as awning, in the car.

 

I took our Bailey U2 Cadiz to the local weighbridge today and was shocked to get a reading 242kg above MTPLM.

 

Here are the relevant spec figs for the Cadiz.

 

MIRO 1344kg

MTPLM 1498kg

Payload 154kg

 

Weighbridge reading was 1740kg!

 

I included battery (24kg) and motor mover (27kg) when calculating actual payload weights.

 

I subtracted carpets (10kg) and table (9kg) which we don't use, as well as 7. 5kg for the Calorlite gas cylinder which that much lighter than the 18kg allowed in MIRO. Bailey told me everything supplied with the van was included in MIRO.

 

Thanks.

 

The carpets, table 7. 5kg gas cylinder are included in the MIRO if the caravan was manufactured after 2011. If not, do you carry a mattress topper as that is 10kg. The EHU lead is about 6kgs. Bed linen about 8kgs. Cultery, crockery, pots & pans weigh another couple of kgs. Do you carry a TV if so what is the weight? Your motor mover will be about 30kg and battery about 26kgs. Check with bailey if you can upgrade the MTPLM for a fee.

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Actual load and MTPLM are not to be mixed. While there are plenty who advocate loading up and letting the car take some of it, I'm not one. The MTPLM to me is the most a caravan and contents should weigh, and quite frankly I would rather be within than be stuck with the authorities who don't understand the law.

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I don't know about your weighbridge readings but I can comment on what I found with my last two caravans and a Rich Caravan Weight Control. .. http://www. reich-web. com/en/vehicle-scale/cwc-caravan-weight-control. html

 

My Bailey Pegasus 2 Rimini comes in loaded with 2 Lite gas bottles, battery, mattress toppers, TV, gas BBQ, Powrtouch mover and all sorts needed for normal use (inc toilet and flush holding 2-3 litres in total; but with other water drained completely) at around 1400-1460kg. Noseweight is 80-85kg and included in that previous figure. So I trust Bailey's MIRO figure is near enough correct for my purposes. PS We have added the front chest of drawers (extra weight), removed the supplied carpets but added washable rugs, so

 

Similarly when we got the CWC the readings were within a reasonable accuracy for the calculated numbers I had done with our Ace Award Firestar as loaded up for use. .. So again the Swift MIRO figures were not very far out.

 

1) I think you may need to detail precisely how you measured/calculated the caravan mass from the measurements taken, plus what type of weighbridge was used. .. as I can't see how an error that big has occurred.

 

2) You say "I've managed to get rid of the excess, now" -- is that all the 242 kg over? or are you just referring to your known 30kg error?

 

My Rimini is the same layout as your Cadiz but with different bits inside. .. MIRO 1330kg, MTPLM 1499kg (as its on the same 1500kg chassis). So I do get an extra 14kg payload over the U2 Cadiz. But to be that heavy you must be loading gold bars or something similar to take away!

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I don't worry over a small over load and neither do the law, from what I have read.

 

What I do think is important on a SA caravan is not exceeding the stamped axle weight.

Reading Lutz's post I find the unloaded weight error totally unacceptable.

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I should have added that on the 27th Feb 2014 on the weighbridge our caravan weighed 1780kg. We needed to get this down to 1765kg to accommodate the air con that was to be fitted. We removed some stuff and exchanged other stuff for lighter items. As we weighed everything we took out, I estimated that the weight would be about 1764kg. We went back to the weigh bridge two weeks later and the reading was 1820kg. It had increased despite removing a number of items from the caravan.

We went ahead anyway and had the air con fitted as by my calculations the caravan weighed just under 1800kg which is the MTPLM of the caravan. Since then we have bought a Duvalay mattress and got rid of the original sprung mattress plus the mattress topper. The Duvalay mattress weighs 13kg and the other two weighed about 30 kgs together as the topper alone weighed 10kg.

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It does seem a lot, I would be tempted to remove everything that wasn't in the caravan when you bought it and try again, I wouldn't remover mover or battery just deduct the weight as you've done.

 

I'm in the process of buying a couple of calor lites to keep the weight down in our caravan. However I let out the Yorkshire war cry when I saw the price, HOW MUCH!!!! :o

I took a calor blue bottle in the small one and got a no cost swap a 6Kg lite, so I would do some phoning around.

 

From memory a full 6KG lite weighs around 10KG.

Edited by xtrailman
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Your not on your own as a large number of people towing caravans are in the same position and are totally unaware of their actual weight and all think they are perfectly under their MTPLM .

 

First time i check mine i was over MTPLM and the caravan had to go on a diet . Lockers get filled with items that I might need and are usually a spare of a spare item .

 

1740 kg was that with the caravan attached to the vehicle and the caravan axle weight ?

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
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The trouble with weigh bridges along with most other equipment is that they have an accuracy.

Most bridges would be in the + or - 5 or 10% figure.

So what does that mean.

Well with a 1500 kg 'van an accuracy of 5% could see a 75kg difference 10% 150kg

 

So you must always take these accuracy figures into account.

 

Most bridges are designed for much larger vehicles and often don't read very well for the smaller weights we deal with or can be more inaccurate.

So I would advise to take readings as not exact unless you get to see the calibration certificates.

 

You will however tend to find that the police etc. do know about this and will not normally chase the exact figure

(think about it if they weight something at a check point and prosecute based on an exact figure they leave themselves open if the weight is within the accuracy of the weighing machine)

 

It's well published that speedos are permitted 10% +6 in the UK

Edited by Ich
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Did you get the caravan weighed on its own or attached to the your car? If you weighed it on its own then you can deduct 70-100Kgs off that weight as it will be shifted to the car depending on your nose weight.

 

I think that's how it works? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

It was weighed on its own, though I did wonder if the lorry behind had its front wheels on the scales. Hadn't heard of the rule about deducting the hitch weight.

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Hadn't heard of the rule about deducting the hitch weight.

Because there is one!

Kind regards Andrew.

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The trouble with weigh bridges along with most other equipment is that they have an accuracy.

Most bridges would be in the + or - 5 or 10% figure.

So what does that mean.

Well with a 1500 kg 'van an accuracy of 5% could see a 75kg difference 10% 150kg

 

So you must always take these accuracy figures into account.

 

Most bridges are designed for much larger vehicles and often don't read very well for the smaller weights we deal with or can be more inaccurate.

So I would advise to take readings as not exact unless you get to see the calibration certificates.

 

You will however tend to find that the police etc. do know about this and will not normally chase the exact figure

(think about it if they weight something at a check point and prosecute based on an exact figure they leave themselves open if the weight is within the accuracy of the weighing machine)

 

It's well published that speedos are permitted 10% +6 in the UK

Most weighbridges have an accuracy of +/- 20kg

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Most weighbridges have an accuracy of +/- 20kg

That's correct our 30T overhead cranes had a tolerance of 20kg.

Same as the weigh bridges for the scrap lorries.

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