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The 2 Tops

Brittany Ferries Overcrowding On The Vehicle Decks

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Do they tie down cars or caravans?

Last time I did a Dover crossing (fairly calm) a couple of trucks on the fore deck in the open had chains lashing the trailers, so wondered if the lashed anything else, and how/where you'd lash a caravan?

Only HGV and motorbikes get tied down. Edited by purplemadboy

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The vehicles may well sway on theirs suspensions, however they are on a ship not a motorway, therefore they will sway in the same direction at the same time. Most will not believe it but 4" is a lot with even a large swell or high sea state to close and actually hit the next vehicle. ......

 

This is a Utopian belief. Different vehicle characteristics will produce different degrees of sway. For example, a lightly loaded caravan with shock absorbers is likely to sway less than a fully loaded caravan without shock absorbers. So, at roof height, the pendulum effect would soon use up that 4" and perhaps more, although some of the vans were much closer than 4" when taking into consideration things like the road lights at their upper sides, and their protruding acrylic windows.

In addition, when the sway of the vehicles changes to the opposite direction, all vehicles will not recover at the same rate.

What does worry me is that quite a number of posters are defending the ferry operators by supporting these abnormally close situations - seeming to accept that damage to their vehicles is an unavoidable par for the course.

There can be no guarantee that unfortunate incidents may occur on rare occasions, but these should be greatly minimised by adequate and sensible spacing.

It should be remembered that we are talking about experienced ferry companies who should have the skill and expertise to ensure, as far as is humanly possible, that vehicles do not chafe each other during a crossing.

Edited by The 2 Tops
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This is a Utopian belief. Different vehicle characteristics will produce different degrees of sway. For example, a lightly loaded caravan with shock absorbers is likely to sway less than a fully loaded caravan without shock absorbers. So, at roof height, the pendulum effect would soon use up that 4" and perhaps more, although some of the vans were much closer than 4" when taking into consideration things like the road lights at their upper sides, and their protruding acrylic windows.

In addition, when the sway of the vehicles changes to the opposite direction, all vehicles will not recover at the same rate.

What does worry me is that quite a number of posters are defending the ferry operators by supporting these abnormally close situations - seeming to accept that damage to their vehicles is an unavoidable par for the course.

There can be no guarantee that unfortunate incidents may occur on rare occasions, but these should be greatly minimised by adequate and sensible spacing.

It should be remembered that we are talking about experienced ferry companies who should have the skill and expertise to ensure, as far as is humanly possible, that vehicles do not chafe each other during a crossing.

There is a scientific and mathematical calculation for the behaviour of any suspended object, either sprung or unsprung. The shock absorber will have little or no effect as the period of roll is far too slow, weight again is not material as it actually depends where the weight is. Caravans have a low C of G and very little weight towards the roof, there may be a possibility that a van with a heavy AC on the roof may well move slightly more than one without but very unlikely to actually clash awning rails, as for windows being hit, well try it yourself on a sheet of paper and draw the worse case, the window cannot hit anything even if one van stays still and the other leans to the extent the van top hits the others side wall.

It may look uncomfortable and not safe to you, I can assure you the ferry company will not place any vehicle in a position where the payout costs would exceed £4000 per vehicle which may or may not include some to the extent of a lost holiday.

But do please carry on posting, it will be to your detriment.

Trucks are a different case, their C of G is considerably higher and their kinetic energy in a ships roll of even 4-5 degrees is in terms of over 100tonnes taking a fully loaded artic of 44tonnes. In a force 8 gale it is unlikely the roll would exceed 15-20 degrees, probably not even that, though to you on the upper decks it would seem considerably more

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And yet, on the return crossing we were on, people who had sailed outwards under similar packed conditions were claiming that their vehicles and caravans had collected marks on them. Can't see any reason for them to be lying, and I did not hear any distinction of whether it had been due to carelessness of the crew during loading/unloading, or whilst actually at sea. From my own experience I can see where crew carelessness might be a cause - in my case I had two of the crew giving conflicting instructions, to the point of having to tell them to make up their minds.

I doubt the loading crew have any knowledge of scientific calculations - if these really exist in practical terms for the situation being discussed. A mixture of vehicles will behave differently on their suspensions during a significant swell at sea.

Perhaps this is why, in post #83, the comments of the Chief Exec of B. F. are reported as saying that there should be spacing similar to that found in a multi-storey car park. That makes sense to me. The widths of the marked deck lanes are there for a reason.

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Perhaps this is why, in post #83, the comments of the Chief Exec of B. F. are reported as saying that there should be spacing similar to that found in a multi-storey car park. That makes sense to me. The widths of the marked deck lanes are there for a reason.

Perhaps the CEO of BF saying there should spacing similar to a multi storey, but he didn't say must be, so he is condoning it.

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As I posted once before, UK requirements are to stow vehicles close together as a safety requirement.

 

5. 14 Vehicles should be closely stowed athwartships so that, in the in the event of any failure in the securing arrangements or from any other cause, the transverse movement is restricted. However, sufficient distance between vehicles should be provided to permit safe access for the crew and for passengers getting into and out of vehicles and going to and from accesses serving vehicle spaces.

 

The second part talks about of access. But does not specify how that should be obtained so it looks as though reducing the number of points of access across the front and rear of cars is permissible.

 

Though I do note non of the objectors have cared to comment on the requirement to closely stow vehicles!

Edited by Ich

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linked to this in a way is do caravan companies include Ariel heights in their specs as i've booked the st Malo 2. 6m with a elddis that's spec says 2. 58

 

if that doesn't include the Ariel could get expensive

 

Many years ago we travelled from Portsmouth (I think). When in the queues waiting to board a man came along with a step ladder and removed everyone's tip from the status aerial and gave it to them to refit later.

 

He did say it was for that particular ferry but I don't remember the ferries name. There are some ferry buffs on here who may know.

 

John

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It should be remembered that we are talking about experienced ferry companies who should have the skill and expertise to ensure, as far as is humanly possible, that vehicles do not chafe each other during a crossing.

And they will load as they see fit.

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So has anyone suffered from "chafeage" or is this now a hypothetical discussion?

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So has anyone suffered from "chafeage" or is this now a hypothetical discussion?

That's a good point Alfa. I would have thought that if chafeage was an issue there must be someone on this forum who has suffered from this sort of damage and claimed for damages against the ferry company.

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That's a good point Alfa. I would have thought that if chafeage was an issue there must be someone on this forum who has suffered from this sort of damage and claimed for damages against the ferry company.

That's what I thought.

 

I'm not saying I don't sympathise with the OP regarding access in the vehicle deck and close proximity will surely increase the chance of damage from things like door strikes too.

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