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Caravan Finance - Bank Personal Loan Vs. Black Horse


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I am just about to buy a new Cadiz, and I am probably going to finance that purchase with a personal loan from my bank, at about 4%. I had looked at Black Horse as suggested by my dealer, but in comparison they seem a lot more expensive, at somewhere in the region of 10%. However, I have been told this morning that if there is a problem with the van (early damp ingress etc.), Black Horse will fight a lot harder with the manufacturer than the bank, and that they hold a lot more power because there is always the possibility of them refusing to finance any more vans from that particular dealer. What do you think please, should it all be funded by my bank, by Black Horse, a mixture of the two or what? The amount to be financed is 10k.

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I bought a brand new lunar SI in January it developed over 20 faults. Neither the dealer nor lunar interested in helping. One call to blackhorse resulted in an independent report being submitted tha

Unless the car/caravan is brand new and the manufacturer is paying the subsidy for 0%  (that is the difference between 0% and the lowest interest rate the finance company can offer at break even) then

Whilst the credit card company don't own the goods, as in a hire purchase agreement, they are, under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act jointly liable for anything purchased or partly purchased usi

If you can purchase some part of the van on credit card, then use the loan money to pay off the credit card then the credit card company is liable for the purchase (As I understand it) - Please check, I may be wrong.

 

With the Black horse load, the money is borrowed specifically against the caravan, so if you don't pay or miss a payment, they take back the van for starters.

With a bank load, the money is borrowed against you, so an individual item is not used as security.

Personally, I would go with the cheapest loan and make the credit card liable by using it to pay the deposit.

Edited by dreadly
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An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

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Dreadly is correct about the protection you get by using a credit card for part of the purchase on an item costing £100 or more in total.

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 applies.

 

http://www. moneysavingexpert. com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

Edited by onewheelonmywagon
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Dreadly is correct about the protection you get by using a credit card for part of the purchase on an item costing £100 or more in total.

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 applies.

 

http://www. moneysavingexpert. com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

I got something right :D :D :D

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An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

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Look on Martin Lewis website. He finds the cheapest sources of finance. I got a credit card from MBNA for 3% thanks to him

Lunar Solaris 1 Limited Edition Hopefully Behind A

BMW 520D MSport Touring. ...

 

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All good advice above, however Black Horse finance rates do tend to differ between dealers. The dealer I bought my van off had a better rate than any of the banks/supermarkets at the time, and he told me that Black Horse allow dealers to set their own rates.

I don't know for sure if that is true though, but that's what I was told.

 

I was having problems with my dealers inability to sort out some problems with my van, one phone call to BH however changed all that.

 

If you can get a better loan rate, I would go down that route, but as suggested by dreadly, pay a deposit on a credit card and then they are also liable.

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Thanks folks. I think I'm alright then. I paid the deposit by MasterCard, and should, by the sounds of it, be ok. What I thought of doing was to pay maybe £1500 on the card, and the balance from the current account. That way, MasterCard will have a reasonable financial interest. Though, what concerns me is precisely what Vally Commando says, about the dealers inability to sort problems being overcome by a call to BH (or perhaps, was it more their intransigence rather than inability). Having said all of that, of course, I have the 3 year component guarantee and the 6 year body shell guarantee supplied by Bailey, and have added the additional 4 year body extension available. All in all, and it's always 'fingers crossed', but I think I am doing right. However, more advice, comments etc. would always be appreciated!!!

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Another bit of advice I would give you, is to research the dealer you buy from because they do vary. The best recommendations are obviously from people who have purchased from your chosen dealer.

 

Looking at your location, and the fact you are buying a Bailey, would your dealer be Chipping Sodbury? If it is, I know a few people who have bought vans off them and have nothing but praise for them.

 

The problems I was having with my van was indeed the dealers inability to sort them out, in fact there are quite a few people who post on this forum that unfortunately have suffered at the hands of this particular dealer. I will never use them again, and I was lucky that with the help of Elddis, that another dealer took on the warranty of my van and they have sorted the problems that the supplying dealer couldn't.

 

So that is my biggest piece of advice to you is to research your dealer, believe me the difference between a dealer who cares after you have bought the van to one who doesn't, makes for a much more pleasurable experience.

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As said, I think Dealers have a flexible deal with Black Horse, different dealers have different

rates, at a caravan show like N E C Black Horse often have special low rates.

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Simply pay £100 on a credit card as said.

 

I paid £119 on credit card for my Astra, the balance debit card. The car was a nightmare, but Tesco and Mastercard became involved. The Astra is now gone!

 

Russ

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I spent 21 years working in the payment card industry. What's been said about s. 75 of the CCA is correct. The card company or finance house become jointly liable, with the retailer, for the goods purchased if the transaction is for £100 or more. So simply pay £100 as part of a deposit or final balance and you'll have their clout behind you for the total value of the item.

 

A bank personal loan isn't seen as being 'attached' to any particular item so the same protection doesn't apply.

 

Black Horse and other finance houses give the dealers a range of rate options to choose from. They obviously vary depending on the Base Rate etc. It used to be that the higher rates generated a kickback from the finance house to the dealer, but I'm not sure now whether the FCA allow such things.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

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I'm actually buying from Northam Farm at Brean Sands. I've holidayed there a number of times, and they do seem to sell a large number of vans. Their handover area is almost always over half full. Their handover period extends to a couple of nights stay if necessary, too. Finally, I've read good reports of them on thus site too. Thanks to steamdrivenandy about the fact that I really don't need to pay any more than £100, but it's not difficult to pay more by credit card as long as I remember to clear my balance before the interest date falls!

Grateful thanks to all who have posted here - we pick up the Cadiz on 21 July (hopefully), though I've heard stories of people going to a dealer to collect, only to be told that their van has not left the factory yet!! However, that's another story that might not happen.

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Richard, I thought I"d better just mention something that you may not have considered. You are buying your van very late in the 2015 Model Year cycle. In about a month or so from your collection date new vans delivered will be designated 2016MY. Whilst I know of no plans to change anything on the U3 range for 2016 there could be a substantial hit to your pocket.

 

If you collect your van as planned it will always be considered a 2015 model and valued accordingly when changed. Wait a few weeks and collect a 2016 model and it will always be considered a year younger for valuation purposes.

 

If you have already considered this and are happy that your van will be considered as a year old come the Autumn, then that's fine, but I thought you might appreciate the heads up.

 

Traditionally dealers have been willing to reduce prices as the Model Year progresses in recognition of the declining period of use available before the MY changes. However the U3 range has been massively popular this year and discounts have been harder to come by because dealers can easily sell all the U3s they can source.

 

For guidance I would say that at this time of year you need to be getting at least £2,000 off list price to ensure you're not losing out financially by buying so late on in the season.

 

Bailey had to rejig their production schedule early in the year in order to accommodate the unusually high demand for U3 vans and this caused substantial delays for certain models, compared to initial delivery estimates. Those delays seem to have worked through the system now and there have been no recent reports on CT of delayed delivery. As for people turning up at dealers to find their van not available, that sounds like an urban myth. If it isn't then the relevant dealership needs avoiding at all costs.

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I spent 21 years working in the payment card industry. What's been said about s. 75 of the CCA is correct. The card company or finance house become jointly liable, with the retailer, for the goods purchased if the transaction is for £100 or more. So simply pay £100 as part of a deposit or final balance and you'll have their clout behind you for the total value of the item.

 

 

 

Surely, any amount of deposit, even if under £100, invokes s75 ?

 

Visa and Mastercard have chargeback schemes for credit cards where the purchase price is less than £100 and debit cards, pre-paid cards and store cards for any amount but there are conditions.

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s75 only applies to transactions above £100 and if I remember correctly there's a maximum transaction size too, but way above what we're considering.

 

A card issuer might choose to get involved if the transaction is below £100 and if it's relevant might use the chargeback system. I doubt they would though because:

1. They wouldn't want to assume liability for a v large transaction when all they've handled is, say, £10 of it.

2. The chargeback system only gives them the right to return the charge to the dealer's processor. It would be up to that processor to pass on the chargeback to their customer (the dealer). That processor may well argue the toss and reject the chargeback, especially if it's for more than the original transaction.

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Section 75 can be sued but you need to jump through many hoops. The biggest issue is if you want to keep the van but the dealer is hassling, Having BH on your side with instant access is a big bonus. Consider a big down payment using loan and credit card thus reducing monthly repayment amount. Set contract for 3 years which then covers just about everything. Nothing worse when you have a niggle and the dealer never seems to fix it. Our caravan is over 3 years old but we are still claiming for under warranty repairs.

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Steamdrivenandy, thanks for your thoughts regarding price. The RRP for the Cadiz is £21055 + delivery making a total of £21620. On top of this there are many options, but we have only taken up the 4 year body she'll integrity at £199. We are now at £21899, and we are paying £19846, saving over £2k, about where you said we should be. With the Unicorn being so very popular, there doesn't seem to be many reductions around, some are saying 'no delivery charge' whilst others have no reduction at all.

One annoying thing for me is the lack of a factory fitted alarm, so I think I'll have to get a local dealer (?) to retrofit one. They do seem to rely on the Tracker, and I know this is moving off subject, but if the caravan is taken, I don't think I want ti back whatever the condition, so after the first 3 months I'm not sure whether to take up the cost of the Tracker payments.

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There are specialist alarm fitting companies as well that you might like to consider, they're often the people your local dealer calls in to do an install for them.

 

I have mixed views about alarms on vans. Our recently departed Lunar had an alarm as standard and was kept on our drive. For the first year or so it was a pain for a variety of reasons. I got fed up with it and contacted the alarm manufacturer who said the installation sounded faulty. I posted him the alarm unit and plips and foc received an updated set of remotes and alarm box. From then on all worked as it should.

 

However that won't stop the alarm sounding and waking the neighbours when the van battery is almost flat.

 

Our current Bailey has no alarm, which is something less to worry about, but is tucked away amongst 700 other vans in a CASSOA storage site where an alarm would probably be ineffective and inappropriate. It has an Alko wheel lock etc and as you infer, if it's pinched I really don't fancy having it back if it's been trashed etc.

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Caravan finance with black horse at a dealer near us is at 7. 6%

 

CHEERS DAZKIM

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I always pay a card payment on part payment of the deposit so the deposit is covered if a company goes under before you complete the purchase. You are then covered from the start.

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
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I always pay a card payment on part payment of the deposit so the deposit is covered if a company goes under before you complete the purchase. You are then covered from the start.

 

 

Dave

An extremely good point. I once lost a 250ukp deposit when a furniture store went bust with my deposit :(

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

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Still on the subject of finance, I have just set up the insurance for the Cadiz, with no factory fitted alarm, this is evidently Bailey's policy now, and having told them that I probably would not take up the Tracker after the first 3 months, and the cost, with CCC for a brand new Van, was more than £80 cheaper for the year than with my 2003 Oklahoma insured with the Caravan Club! Basically I told the insurers that I would have no alarm or tracker after the first 3 months, that my security would consist of a hitchlock and a wheel clamp. I was convinced that they would insist on either the alarm or the tracker and was very surprised when they didn't.

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Still on the subject of finance, I have just set up the insurance for the Cadiz, with no factory fitted alarm, this is evidently Bailey's policy now, and having told them that I probably would not take up the Tracker after the first 3 months, and the cost, with CCC for a brand new Van, was more than £80 cheaper for the year than with my 2003 Oklahoma insured with the Caravan Club! Basically I told the insurers that I would have no alarm or tracker after the first 3 months, that my security would consist of a hitchlock and a wheel clamp. I was convinced that they would insist on either the alarm or the tracker and was very surprised when they didn't.

Given the amount of times I hear rogue alarms going off on CC sites, I would rather not have one. I need a smoke alarm though, it tells me when breakfast is ready.

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An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.

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I bought a brand new lunar SI in January it developed over 20 faults. Neither the dealer nor lunar interested in helping. One call to blackhorse resulted in an independent report being submitted that acknowledged all the faults and blackhorse then accepted the van back. I got all monies back plus various compensation payments they even bought the motormover off me. I can't fault them and given the choice next time would use them again like a shot.

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Steamdrivenandy, thanks for your thoughts regarding price. The RRP for the Cadiz is £21055 + delivery making a total of £21620. On top of this there are many options, but we have only taken up the 4 year body she'll integrity at £199. We are now at £21899, and we are paying £19846, saving over £2k, about where you said we should be. With the Unicorn being so very popular, there doesn't seem to be many reductions around, some are saying 'no delivery charge' whilst others have no reduction at all.

One annoying thing for me is the lack of a factory fitted alarm, so I think I'll have to get a local dealer (?) to retrofit one. They do seem to rely on the Tracker, and I know this is moving off subject, but if the caravan is taken, I don't think I want ti back whatever the condition, so after the first 3 months I'm not sure whether to take up the cost of the Tracker payments.

 

Richard,

 

I doubt the practicality of a factory fitted alarm as every caravan of the same model will have the same alarm situated in the same place etc. ,etc.

 

As far as the TRACKER fitted to the U3,don't waste your time and money.

 

It is TRACKER RETRIEVE which means you have to inform Tracker if it is nicked,so if it is in storage say it may have been gone a week before you know and report it.

 

I know you say you wouldn't want it back,it all depends how far it has got.

 

To replace a van totally is going to bump up the insurance premium somewhat apart from which I would want to see the thieving scroats caught and brought to book,even though they will only probably get Community Service.

 

We have a Phantom Pro Active 3 tracking device linked to one of their recommended alarms,it includes an interior movement sensor and a leg sensor,seems to work well.

 

There is also a website/app with a link to your unit which tells you where it is,the battery charge and how many miles it has done.

 

Cost just over £600 in total inc. fitting by the dealer.

 

Ian

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