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gordnpat

Alde 3020 Overheat Red Fail And Flood

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Hi Gordon, pleased you are getting it sorted. I think this maybe a part dealers will need to keep in stock. Paul

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@ PaulR. No sensors have been replaced at this time.

 

@ Brocher12. Thanks for your explanation, which is more useful info to know. Ours has the serpentine towel rail. Following the red fail, I checked the bleed nipple and fluid came out immediately with no air. So presumably there was no trapped air at that point. It was only after that I thought to look inside the wardrobe, etc. Wouldn't a big air bubble inside a radiator expand with the heat and have the same fluid-dumping effect as a bubble in the towel rail? Or perhaps the radiator's larger surface area provides better cooling for the trapped air, resulting in less expansion.

 

Gordon

hi Gordon

I had the red overheat message twice when I first got my van earlier this year and the only way to reset was as you have said disconnect both the battery and mains. after the second time I rang Alde and was informed that their were 5 bleed points and told to bleed them in sequence at the 3rd point which is where the pipe dips down from the bedroom to go behind the fridge and cooker there was a tiny amount of air (and I mean tiny) once the circuit was completely bled all was fantastic and the heating performed much quicker to heat up and was noticeably hotter. we have done a further 26 nights away over four trips and all appears to be fine.

 

regards

Doug

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Hi Gordon, pleased you are getting it sorted. I think this maybe a part dealers will need to keep in stock. Paul

Thanks Paul. Once this is sorted we're intending to come up with the van and investigate your neck of the woods.

 

Gordon

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hi Gordon

I had the red overheat message twice when I first got my van earlier this year and the only way to reset was as you have said disconnect both the battery and mains. after the second time I rang Alde and was informed that their were 5 bleed points and told to bleed them in sequence at the 3rd point which is where the pipe dips down from the bedroom to go behind the fridge and cooker there was a tiny amount of air (and I mean tiny) once the circuit was completely bled all was fantastic and the heating performed much quicker to heat up and was noticeably hotter. we have done a further 26 nights away over four trips and all appears to be fine.

 

regards

Doug

Hi Doug, it sounds as if your Swift installation was designed for ease of bubble-chasing! No-one has mentioned bleed points other than the towel rail for my van, so I'll ask about them the next time I speak with the techie sorting my problem.

 

Gordon

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John,

Water, with or with out additives should flow but are susceptible to air locks dependent on circuit design. Additives change the properties of the fluid, see attached chart for glycol. Higher boiling point for one.

 

Don't understand your point. It is accepted that additives change the nature of fluid but my point has been that it should not be necessary to have additives for a simple 1 pipe system to operate. Therefore, in my opinion the mixture was not the problem. Subsequent events seem to have substantiated this but not until they OP had wasted his time having unnecessary work done. No matter how well meaning.

 

 

Additives may improve the working or life but not the basic method of operation.

 

 

John

Edited by JCloughie

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Hi Doug, it sounds as if your Swift installation was designed for ease of bubble-chasing! No-one has mentioned bleed points other than the towel rail for my van, so I'll ask about them the next time I speak with the techie sorting my problem.

 

Gordon

Gordon

if you ring Alde direct and tell them the make and model of your van they can pull up the layout and tell you exactly where the points are, I thought there was only the 1 bleed point in the bathroom but 2 of them were behind the front seats and 1 was in the bedroom cupboard they aren't obvious as bleed points as they have black rubber sleeves over them. I would be amazed if your van only has 1 point.

 

Regards

Doug

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My Valencia only had 2 bleed points and when I changed the fluid I only knew about the one on the towel rail. The system bled with no problem.

 

John

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Don't understand your point. It is accepted that additives change the nature of fluid but my point has been that it should not be necessary to have additives for a simple 1 pipe system to operate. Therefore, in my opinion the mixture was not the problem. Subsequent events seem to have substantiated this but not until they OP had wasted his time having unnecessary work done. No matter how well meaning.

 

 

Additives may improve the working or life but not the basic method of operation.

 

 

John

John,

I think you are correct in stating that the system does not need additives to function, but it is designed thermodynamically to work with an mix of antifreeze.

 

This changes the thermal conductivitiy of the fluid and in this case is less efficient than plain water, therefore the system needs more fluid run(volume) to obtain the same degree of heating effect for a specified input.(I googled that bit). Does that make sense.

 

So, if the antifreeze concentraion was lower, the heat input would have a greater effect ( as the thermal conductivity is better) increasing the temp of the fluid, if my logic is correct.

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John,

I think you are correct in stating that the system does not need additives to function, but it is designed thermodynamically to work with an mix of antifreeze.

 

This changes the thermal conductivitiy of the fluid and in this case is less efficient than plain water, therefore the system needs more fluid run(volume) to obtain the same degree of heating effect for a specified input.(I googled that bit). Does that make sense.

 

So, if the antifreeze concentraion was lower, the heat input would have a greater effect ( as the thermal conductivity is better) increasing the temp of the fluid, if my logic is correct.

Sorry you are missing my point, what you say is true, but, my point was simply that it was illogical that the fluid mixture was at fault for the problem as the system should have worked without it. At no point did I suggest it may be better or acceptable to run it without antifreeze.

 

Hence the look at line in my previous post.

 

John

Edited by JCloughie

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My Valencia only had 2 bleed points and when I changed the fluid I only knew about the one on the towel rail. The system bled with no problem.

 

John

 

On mine there is a bleed point by every radiator (6 in total).

 

My 4 year old Valencia has 3 bleed points & I've changed the fluid myself without any stress, with much appreciated advice gained off here. This is the only time I've found it needed any attention at all.

In fact I can't praise the system enough (not a common occurrence for me LOL).

 

The OP's problems would seem to me to be faulty sensors, as already stated. It will be very interesting to hear when they actualy find out the cure.

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My 4 year old Valencia has 3 bleed points & I've changed the fluid myself without any stress, with much appreciated advice gained off here. This is the only time I've found it needed any attention at all.

In fact I can't praise the system enough (not a common occurrence for me LOL).

 

The OP's problems would seem to me to be faulty sensors, as already stated. It will be very interesting to hear when they actualy find out the cure.

As I said before I only knew of the one on the towel rail. I emailed Bailey and they told me about the one under the front bunk tucked away. It was too late as I had already changed the fluid without problem. Bailey did not mention the 3rd one to me. You would have thought they would have known.

 

Hopefully the OP's problem was sorted in post 25.

 

John

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Hi Guys, many thanks for your continued interest and support. The van is still at our dealer's workshop.

 

We have the decorators in all next week so there's no immediate rush to get our van back. We're waiting with bated breath for the result of the investigation, and want to be able to set off and enjoy it the following week if possible.

 

I'll make sure that you're all the first to know when our pride and joy returns home fully cured!

 

Cheers

 

Gordon

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How interesting. We had a very similar issue superficially with our new van - although thankfully I did not suffer anything other than excessive bubbling in the header tank. In the same way, the system seemed to work OK to start with in that it warmed up, but it threw repeated red overheat fails. This (I now find) means that the glycol mix in the boiler has overheated because there is a flow issue. The bore of the pipework is fairly small, and reasonable size bubbles will cause blockages so I bled the system repeatedly. However, the problem deteriorated and the pipes then failed to warm at all. I went through all the cycles repeatedly (remember, this is a van about 2 weeks 'old') and rang Alde who took me though their online diagnostic - rapidly concluding between us that the pump had failed. To cut a long story short, the pump was found to be faulty at the dealership and replaced (despite considerable scepticism from Alde) and all is now fine. My suggestion thus is to get the pump tested carefully. Could it be that there is a problematic batch?

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Interesting, but how is the pump failing seen by the boiler any different to the room thermostat not requiring the pump to run?

In each case the boiler ought to look after itself and only get the fluid up to the boiler's own internal thermostat temperature.

Edited by JTQ
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Interesting, but how is the pump failing seen by the boiler any different to the room thermostat not requiring the pump to run?

In each case the boiler ought to look after itself and only get the fluid up to the boiler's own internal thermostat temperature.

To my mind as you point out so long as fluid is in the boiler the pumps activity should be an irrelevance, but if the suggestion is due to the pump failure air was in the boiler and not full of fluid, that would allow the overheat.

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To my mind as you point out so long as fluid is in the boiler the pumps activity should be an irrelevance, but if the suggestion is due to the pump failure air was in the boiler and not full of fluid, that would allow the overheat.

Yes, true if air was in the boiler. However, the fluid outlet from the boiler is in its crown where the auto air vent is mounted and from here the pipe should ideally rise throughout to the header, itself giving natural venting.

It might be wise to note if that return to the header affords that desirable self venting, so not rely on the auto vent functioning, but I realise in the OP's case the van is not available to check.

 

It will be interesting to hear the outcome.

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My money is still on the new type surface mounted sensors. It sorted my problems out.

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Hi, I too have had the THE OVERHEAT RED FAIL, 4 times this has happened and this is only our second outing and also the pump has stoped on two or three occasions, when I took the pump out each time and touched the propeller the pump started rotating. I phoned Alde and they talked me through resetting the control panel but also suggested that if the pump stops working this will cause the THE OVERHEAT RED FAIL and suggested I get the pump replaced. I phoned my dealer and explained the situation and told them what Alde had said and they have ordered a new pump. Another small point the towel rail worked at first but now only the bottom half is heating up, I have bled the towel rail to no avail the rest of the van heats up fine. Any suggestions please

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Hello there.

 

Yes, Overheat Red Failure should occur if ever you have a loss of circulation. So for example, if the fluid level in the expansion tank dropped below the tank, or if the system became air locked, or indeed, if the circulation pump faulted out.

 

Regarding the heated towel rail, is air hissing or fluid dribbling from the bleed point when you open it? If not, there may be some sediment in that has blocked the valve or nipple and is preventing the bleed. It's also worth mentioning that as a general rule, the system should not be bled while the circulation pump is running, as this can suck in air.

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Hi, fluid is dribbling when I bleed the towel rail and this is done when the pump is off, is it possible that there is an air lock further down the pipe behind some fluid?

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Hi, fluid is dribbling when I bleed the towel rail and this is done when the pump is off, is it possible that there is an air lock further down the pipe behind some fluid?

 

Hello there.

 

It is possible, more likely on the towel rail's internal feeder pipe. It might be a problem with how the internal feeder pipe has been laid into the main pipe circuit.

 

If you turn the system on gas heating and 30 degrees for 30 minutes, this will put a lot of heat into the main pipe circuit and should cause a lot of movement in any trapped air.

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Hi again Mr Alde!!! did what you suggested and it has worked a treat, towel rail is now hot at the top, thanks for your expertise.

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Hi All

 

I'm relieved to be able to report that our Alde system is now working properly. It took some effort on the part of my dealer and Alde UK, who pulled out all the stops to sort it out. First, my dealer totally drained the system and re-filled it with genuine Alde 3-year fluid.

 

However, just as that job had been done, Alde UK decided that due to the serious nature of what is apparently an isolated case, they wanted to come and service the system themselves. Accordingly the Chief Engineer arrived with a replacement PC board and two further sensors which he'd tested, and so was certain of their reliability. The job took an entire morning, and the same afternoon my wife and I set off with the 'van for a 4-day stay in the Derbyshire Dales, where, coincidentally, we had quite testing conditions for the heating system with outside temps up and down between below zero up to 20degC from one day to the next.

 

The result was complete success, and we're now enjoying a relaxing week in Dorset. The original board and sensors are now with the manufacturer being checked for faults. A big WELL DONE and many thanks to Alde UK and Leisure Sales, Brereton.

 

It would have been a bit more relaxing if the Dometic Fridge hadn't thrown a fit yesterday with incessant beeping, but that's been cured following telephone advice from Dometic UK, which can be seen in post #6 in this thread;

 

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/96122-dometic-fridge-alarm/

 

Kind Regards

 

Gordon

Edited by gordnpat

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We've just had our 2 year old fliud change done on our 2015 Swift Challenger 530 SE with the 5 year fluid by our mobile service engineer and we've had the red fail and flood!  The overflow pipes did work but not enough to cope with the back up of fliud. Luckily our caravan was completely empty after being away for 3 weeks for warranty work,  as the antifreeze and deionised water mix of fluid overtopped into the wardrobe, along the floor in the washroom and also into the main area of the caravan and some lockers.  Our engineer has never experienced this before and he has been to Alde had all the training and has the correct kit from Alde to carry out the fluid change.

He had to leave the system to cool down and we cleaned out the caravan, I've also had a fan heater in there today but everything OK.   All cleared up and dry now, he's looking at the system again on Monday as since speaking with other engineers who've had the same issue mainly on 2015 Swifts which used sections of rubber connections within the Alde metal pipe work it was caused by air locks.  Hoping it gets sorted on Monday without any fluid backing up and overtopping.

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