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barrychas

Overnight Layby

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So amongst the many knowledgeable members of this forum there must be some one who can explain to me how is it that trucks are allowed to park, for the purpose of sleeping, in a lane /layby very close to Can well Caravans .

Every night there are 4-5 trucks parked up all with their curtains up and I am sure this goes on all over the country.

My gripe is that if I stop for a kip in an out of the way place I can be moved on by the law. .. didn't make sense to me . ..praps someone can enlighten me

.

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So amongst the many knowledgeable members of this forum there must be some one who can explain to me how is it that trucks are allowed to park, for the purpose of sleeping, in a lane /layby very close to Can well Caravans .

Every night there are 4-5 trucks parked up all with their curtains up and I am sure this goes on all over the country.

My gripe is that if I stop for a kip in an out of the way place I can be moved on by the law. .. didn't make sense to me . ..praps someone can enlighten me

.

Have you actually tried to park overnight in the same layby? In what you describe as an out of the way place to park overnight there may be good reasons for you being moved on.

There are often suitable laybys on some major roads where it is permissible to park overnight, if you can find a space amongst the trucks.

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So amongst the many knowledgeable members of this forum there must be some one who can explain to me how is it that trucks are allowed to park, for the purpose of sleeping, in a lane /layby very close to Can well Caravans .

Every night there are 4-5 trucks parked up all with their curtains up and I am sure this goes on all over the country.

My gripe is that if I stop for a kip in an out of the way place I can be moved on by the law. .. didn't make sense to me . ..praps someone can enlighten me

.

I pass there every morning, also similar on the lay-bys on the A38 past Bassett's Pole on the way into Birmingham.

May be it's the tacho thing requiring them to stop?

Edited by Moodshadow

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If you stop in a Layby over night find one that is protected by a island and lays back from the road . A layby is part of the highway and vehicles should have their lights on if over 40 mph speed limit road so police could make it an issue .

 

But nobody seems to care. I travel at night and park up in Laybys if I can find a space but only ones that are well away from the road .

 

 

Dave

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Why would the law move you on, unless that particular layby had a " no overnight parking allowed " sign like they have in Cornwall I would think you would be perfectly within your rights to argue that tiredness kills & you were therefore taking a rest. I believe Scotland has the free camping laws & this is abused all the time in the laybys along loch Lomond by people effectively living there !

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The issue isn't with the OP stopping overnight in the layby. ..It is because he puts his awning up and hooks up to the nearest lamp post!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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So amongst the many knowledgeable members of this forum there must be some one who can explain to me how is it that trucks are allowed to park, for the purpose of sleeping, in a lane /layby very close to Can well Caravans .

Every night there are 4-5 trucks parked up all with their curtains up and I am sure this goes on all over the country.

My gripe is that if I stop for a kip in an out of the way place I can be moved on by the law. .. didn't make sense to me . ..praps someone can enlighten me

.

Because it's always taken for granted that truckers will only stop one night - whilst some touring caravanners stop just one night, as we do on long hauls, some don't and locals are determined not to let travellers get a camp established.

 

Personally, we stop over when we need to, which is long hauls - despite the legal differences between England & Scotland we stop over in both countries but mindful of the law in each place - we've never been moved on - but then we've never stayed more than 10 hours, never connect the water/waste up so never leave any liquids or other rubbish.

 

The same laws apply to truckers but is tolerated in the same way.

Why would the law move you on, unless that particular layby had a " no overnight parking allowed " sign like they have in Cornwall I would think you would be perfectly within your rights to argue that tiredness kills & you were therefore taking a rest. I believe Scotland has the free camping laws & this is abused all the time in the laybys along loch Lomond by people effectively living there !

 

The "no overnight parking" signs have no legal significance - a full yellow line parking regulation would be needed to enforce that sign - Scotland is removing it's "no overnight parking" signs except where it can be legally enforced, Lochaber District (Fort William) for one.

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Just thinking laterally; laybys are still part of the carriageway that is there primarily for moving traffic, so I can understand being moved on should you be in your "jim-jams" with only a thin wall of matchsticks between you and passing vehicles. At least sleeping in a truck cab, the occupant has some substantial steel between him and any traffic that may strike his vehicle. The use of laybys set back from the main carriageway maybe somewhat safer, and your presence tolerated.

Does that sound reasonable?

Gordon.

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It wasn't the fact that I had plugged into the lampost for my wife's hair drier. ..no it was using the power to work the pig roast rotissary that caused the local law to get upset.

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Where commercial drivers are required to make a stop in accordance with their driving hours they will obviously use a convenient layby for that purpose. Other than that, they have no legal advantages over any other type of vehicle. Laybys were implemented years ago for the purposes of short breaks and/or a necessary stop due to a problem. Strictly speaking, the overnight sleeping by HGV drivers and caravanners/motorhomers is a misuse of why laybys were provided. In the early days of light traffic this may not have been considered a problem, but now heavy night time use of laybys does mean they are seldom available for reasons of emergencies.
Because of the laws governing the driving hours of commercial drivers (where tachographs are installed), some police forces may operate on the principle of ignoring these large vehicles whilst at the same time moving on people such as caravanners.
It has to be remembered that if the police were to crack down on overnighting by tachograph-controlled drivers, this would force haulage contractors and local authorities into trying to resolve a very difficult problem. It would very likely cause a three-way conflict between the police, local authorities and haulage contractors. So a situation of status quo continues to exist.

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Most local authorities carry out regular reviews of overnight parking arrangements in their area - whilst one solution is for them to spend money providing truck parking areas, most are content to allow informal overnight parking in laybys and estate roads PROVIDED it doesn't impact road safety or generate complaints from residents bearing in mind that overnight LGV parking is longer than 8 hours, more like 14 because of LGV driving hours restrictions.

 

Busy tourist areas like Cornwall are far more likely to move caravanners on because they receive complaints from vested interests like camp-sites - but in other parts of the UK it's generally tolerated if no nuisance is created.

Edited by Black Grouse
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We once landed at Poole off the RORO ferry from France at around 11:00 pm at night. Too late to find a campsite, and we could not find a single "vacancy" in a layby until we reached the boundary of Leicestershire and so almost home. After that we stopped using the Poole-Cherbourg ferry and now pay more for the Portsmouth-St Malo-Portsmouth run. Overnight out and inward back in Portsmouth about 6:20 pm - and a cabin both ways. Yes, more expensive, but showered and refreshed, the drive is a doddle, and you can't put a price on safety.

The run is less tiring than the 300+ miles drag to Cornwall (where we now do an overnight stop at Cadeside CC site in Somerset), and no need to rely on laybys or smelly M-way lorry parks.

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Just thinking laterally; laybys are still part of the carriageway that is there primarily for moving traffic, so I can understand being moved on should you be in your "jim-jams" with only a thin wall of matchsticks between you and passing vehicles. At least sleeping in a truck cab, the occupant has some substantial steel between him and any traffic that may strike his vehicle. The use of laybys set back from the main carriageway maybe somewhat safer, and your presence tolerated.

Does that sound reasonable?

Gordon.

 

I had a knock early one morning by a little old lady who asked if I could move about 20 YDS along the layby as she wanted to park her land rover and catering van . She said she had been parking in the spot for over 30 yrs . So I said yes no problem so I moved up the empty layby to the other end . She made a bacon roll and cuppa for me and the wife for breakfast . Result.

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As a trucker myself, I know for a fact more truckers would use the services if they weren't charged the ridiculous amount of £25 for overnight parking. In 45years I have never been asked to move from a layby. It is law that we have to park over night because we are regulated with breaks, rest periods where you have to have between 9 and 11 hours between shifts. Also Canwell is not actually a layby it is a old service road. Hope this helps answer your question.

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Sorry Trucker60, but the road outside Can well Caravans is the old main London road thro Bassets Pole before the present A38 was constructed.

Still thanks to all who have responded to the original post . ..I have learned quite a lot about my rights to park up in a quiet area should I need to.

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Sorry Trucker60, but the road outside Can well Caravans is the old main London road thro Bassets Pole before the present A38 was constructed.

Still thanks to all who have responded to the original post . ..I have learned quite a lot about my rights to park up in a quiet area should I need to.

I trust you've noted they aren't actually rights - if you're asked to move on by the police you'd be committing an offence by not moving on - in Scotland, council officials have the same power as well as the police.

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I had a knock early one morning by a little old lady who asked if I could move about 20 YDS along the layby as she wanted to park her land rover and catering van . She said she had been parking in the spot for over 30 yrs . So I said yes no problem so I moved up the empty layby to the other end . She made a bacon roll and cuppa for me and the wife for breakfast . Result.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but your overnight stop could potentially have resulted in an early morning knock on the window from a "man in blue" :ph34r:

I firmly believe however that as the government have imposed the driving hour restrictions on commercial vehicle drivers, then they really should provide a sufficient number of appropriate free parking spaces for them. Those of us with caravans or motorhomes are not legally obliged to take the same breaks, and so such areas provided for trucks, should not be available to private motorists.

I wonder if that would work, and so free up laybys for all to use, possibly with an enforceable maximum stay time, as we see for other parking areas.

Just my rambling thoughts. .. :unsure:

Gordon.

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That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but your overnight stop could potentially have resulted in an early morning knock on the window from a "man in blue" :ph34r:

I firmly believe however that as the government have imposed the driving hour restrictions on commercial vehicle drivers, then they really should provide a sufficient number of appropriate free parking spaces for them. Those of us with caravans or motorhomes are not legally obliged to take the same breaks, and so such areas provided for trucks, should not be available to private motorists.

I wonder if that would work, and so free up laybys for all to use, possibly with an enforceable maximum stay time, as we see for other parking areas.

Just my rambling thoughts. .. :unsure:

Gordon.

I'm not aware the LGV drivers have a shortage of places to stay, official or unofficial, so why does anything need to be done? The number of caravanners overnighting is very low and has no practical effect on LGV drivers.

 

Public roads are for public use, caravanners are part of the public - if capacity or nuisance was an issue then restrictions would need to be imposed - but I respectfully suggest that no capacity or nuisance issues exist.

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I respectfully suggest that no capacity or nuisance issues exist.

I suspect that you are correct for many areas of the country, but locally I often see an excess of HGV trucks that cannot fit in the meagre laybys on offer, so they overflow onto the grass verges at the ends of the "official" laybys. In this situation, I would suggest that there are insufficient parking areas for the number of vehicles, hence my suggestion that additional free parking should be made available in appropriate areas for those drivers legally required to stop.

I totally agree that the highways are for all to use, and by adding specific additional parking areas, then those highways would be available for all. I hope that makes sense.

The number of caravanners overnighting is very low and has no practical effect on LGV drivers.

Maybe if that sentence were to be reversed, it could be said that LGV drivers may be restricting the use of parking areas by caravanners?

We once landed at Poole off the RORO ferry from France at around 11:00 pm at night. Too late to find a campsite, and we could not find a single "vacancy" in a layby until we reached the boundary of Leicestershire and so almost home.

Now I'm not an advocate of sleeping in laybys in caravans or motorhomes, but not to be able to find a single available pull in between Pool and Leicestershire does imply that we don't have an ideal situation at the moment.

Gordon.

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I've always booked a CL site for overnight stops ;)

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Maybe if that sentence were to be reversed, it could be said that LGV drivers may be restricting the use of parking areas by caravanners?

Possibly - but I'm not aware of those like me complaining.

 

Now I'm not an advocate of sleeping in laybys in caravans or motorhomes, but not to be able to find a single available pull in between Poole and Leicestershire does imply that we don't have an ideal situation at the moment.

 

Depending on route taken, there won't be any laybys on motorways, with those on "high quality dual-carriageways" likely to be full.

 

Opportunism doesn't work well on this issue - it really needs pre-planning to identify opportunities away from the main line off the direct route.

I've always booked a CL site for overnight stops ;)

That's not practical for some journeys - arriving at 10pm (or later) and leaving at 6am would be regarded as anti-social at most, if not all, campsites.

 

I can't speak for others, but for me the issue isn't one of cost - it's all about convenience and simply resting in the middle of a long haul.

Edited by Black Grouse

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That's not practical for some journeys - arriving at 10pm (or later) and leaving at 6am would be regarded as anti-social at most, if not all, campsites.

 

 

I like to make the CL stops part of the holiday and I organise my driving so that we get to a site after about 5 or 6hrs driving usually midmorning to midday, once set up we have something to eat, we then go to a local filling station and explore the area.

 

I should add that we continue our journey after the morning rush hours

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Depending on route taken, there won't be any laybys on motorways, with those on "high quality dual-carriageways" likely to be full.

Opportunism doesn't work well on this issue - it really needs pre-planning to identify opportunities away from the main line off the direct route.

You're right of course on both counts, and when using the present MH (and previously the caravans) I consider the journey as part of the holiday, so plan stops accordingly. I've never stopped in a layby overnight, as apart from anything else, passing traffic is hardly conducive to relaxation. I have however stopped for a meal in those laybys and rest areas that are set back from the main carriageway.

Gordon.

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On our journeys between Scotland and England, we regularly stop in a layby on the ex-A74, now by-passed about a mile away by the M74 - it works best for us, either way, by leaving late afternoon / early evening on the Saturday, stopping at 10:30pm and away by 7:30am on the Sunday so that we reach our destination early afternoon.

 

The secret, for us, is choosing those days of the week - LGV traffic is minimal, there no business/employment rush-hours so the congestion points are free-flowing and many people like a lie-in on Sunday morning - it doesn't work mid-week!

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That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but your overnight stop could potentially have resulted in an early morning knock on the window from a "man in blue" :ph34r:

I firmly believe however that as the government have imposed the driving hour restrictions on commercial vehicle drivers, then they really should provide a sufficient number of appropriate free parking spaces for them. Those of us with caravans or motorhomes are not legally obliged to take the same breaks, and so such areas provided for trucks, should not be available to private motorists.

I wonder if that would work, and so free up laybys for all to use, possibly with an enforceable maximum stay time, as we see for other parking areas.

Just my rambling thoughts. .. :unsure:

Gordon.

If you consider the number of tachographed lorries on the roads at any one time, and different journeys and parts of the country where their driving time may expire, I think such parking provisions would be a logistical task of nightmare proportions. So one that any government will be happy to ignore.

 

I suspect that you are correct for many areas of the country, but locally I often see an excess of HGV trucks that cannot fit in the meagre laybys on offer, so they overflow onto the grass verges at the ends of the "official" laybys. In this situation, I would suggest that there are insufficient parking areas for the number of vehicles, hence my suggestion that additional free parking should be made available in appropriate areas for those drivers legally required to stop.

I totally agree that the highways are for all to use, and by adding specific additional parking areas, then those highways would be available for all. I hope that makes sense.

Maybe if that sentence were to be reversed, it could be said that LGV drivers may be restricting the use of parking areas by caravanners?

Now I'm not an advocate of sleeping in laybys in caravans or motorhomes, but not to be able to find a single available pull in between Pool and Leicestershire does imply that we don't have an ideal situation at the moment.

Gordon.

Neither am I, Gordon, but the ability to get a couple of hours rest and make cup of coffee would have made all the difference.

Happily, as I described, we have solved our travel problems. Cadeside CC for overnight stop on the way to Cornwall, and the Leicestershire to Portsmouth journey is only about 160 miles. And the French campsite where we usually stay is only about 28 miles from St Malo. So for these two holiday trips we don't need to rely on laybys. For any other trips we will plan similar travel methods. I can only see the UK situation getting worse in the future, so I feel that we are applying the best planning arrangements for our caravan journeys.

We are retired and can plan our trips at any time. I really sympathise with working families who are forced into taking their hols at peak (and more expensive) periods.

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