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nme2no1

Towing A Big Hobby

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Thanks for that beejay, good to see we really are harmonising with Europe!

 

Don't say that in Rochester or Clacton :D

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Not just Hobbys. On the Strathclyde CC site 2 weeks ago.

 

Probably breaking CC rules for the site as not a legal combination.

 

Ian

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I've often wondered why Bailey didn't make the retreat as a tourer to compete with the big hobbyist, I didn't realise that the CC would stop illegal outfits staying on site either. Wonder if they'd apply the same rules if a van was overweight for the tug?

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Not just Hobbys. On the Strathclyde CC site 2 weeks ago.

Probably breaking CC rules for the site as not a legal combination.

Ian

 

 

That's a big gamble of money to loose in the LR with no insurance.

 

 

Dave

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That's a big gamble of money to loose in the LR with no insurance.

 

 

Dave

What is this thing with you and insurance as the vehicle is probably insured and the insurance is not invalidated because the driver of the vehicle and caravan is breaking a law otherwise most of us would have had our insurance invalidated when we have been caught speeding, parking illegally and a host of other traffic regulations?

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What is this thing with you and insurance as the vehicle is probably insured and the insurance is not invalidated because the driver of the vehicle and caravan is breaking a law otherwise most of us would have had our insurance invalidated when we have been caught speeding, parking illegally and a host of other traffic regulations?

 

 

Insurance can not be invalidated for speeding as it can not be proven to be a contributing fact to a accident but over weight and over size can be proven .

 

 

Dave

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I agree that the Commander has a 'thing' about insurance but most, if not all, insurance companies will look for a way to not pay out if they can. Surely towing a rig that is illegal will count as that? Also in those circumstances would the police/VOSA (whatever they're called these days) regard towing an illegal rig as one offence and thereby towing without insurance as another?

I don't know whether CC rules allow them to ban illegal rigs, but thinking about it they should, otherwise as an authorative caravanning body they would be condoning the breaking of the law. Whilst I know we might all be guilty of speeding and towing overweight, the CC have no readily accessible proof of that, whereas the sight of the rig is clear proof in this case

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Your not towing without insurance because you are still legally covered under a third party liability but the fully comp on the car insurance is invalidated in the event of a accident and then the insurance company have a legal right to take you to court and claim any money they have paid out in the third party claims .

 

Getting nicked could be the least of your problems if you are taken to court for hundreds of thousands for personnel injury claims the insurance company have had to meet . You could loose everything you own for ignoring the law .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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Thanks for that beejay, good to see we really are harmonising with Europe!

 

 

As almost all other European countries have a length limit of 12m for category O2 trailers perhaps it is the UK that isn't in harmony?

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As almost all other European countries have a length limit of 12m for category O2 trailers perhaps it is the UK that isn't in harmony?

 

I think this 7m rule is only on UK roads . It is a ridiculous law as vehicles are more capable now .

 

But if its a glider trailer it can be towed by any vehicle over 7 m also a semi rigid trailer can go upto 12. 2 m with any vehicle .

 

It will be harmonised with EU one day and I thought it might come in the latest regulations on trailers but it is our government that has to change the law unless EU threaten fines like the width issue .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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Towing a caravan that exceeds the legally defined body length is an offence under Construction & Use Regulations.

 

There are many other offences under C&U Regs and RVL regs some of which are committed by hundreds of drivers every day, none of which will, specifically, invalidate insurance. Declaring convictions for such offences may have effect on the premium though.

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I think this 7m rule is only on UK roads . It is a ridiculous law as vehicles are more capable now .

 

But if its a glider trailer it can be towed by any vehicle over 7 m also a semi rigid trailer can go upto 12. 2 m with any vehicle .

 

It will be harmonised with EU one day and I thought it might come in the latest regulations on trailers but it is our government that has to change the law unless EU threaten fines like the width issue .

 

 

Dave

 

 

The 7m body length is specific to the UK only.

 

Glider trailers (and some boat trailers) are considered an abnormal indivisible load.

 

A fifth wheel semi-trailer is towed by a 'tractor' unit and creates an articulated vehicle.

 

The UK government has published its decision and reasons not to increase the 7m body length and is unlikely to re-consider in the near future. Such derogations are permitted under EU directives.

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That's a big gamble of money to loose in the LR with no insurance.

Dave

It would have to proven that whatever resulted in a claim was a direct result of an ver weight or over long trailer. It's very doubtful that something like a disco would be wrong footed by the length, the weight will be well within it's capabilities so it's unlikely to end up in the situation you predict. Edited by nme2no1

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The 7m body length is specific to the UK only.

 

Glider trailers (and some boat trailers) are considered an abnormal indivisible load.

 

 

 

But why is it an exemption that it can be towed on a B+E but other people have to tow under a C1+E licence ?

 

 

Cant see any reason why they do not have to comply to the law like everyone else .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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It would have to proven that whatever resulted in a claim was a direct result of an ver weight or over long trailer. It's very doubtful that something like a disco would be wrong footed by the length, the weight will be well within it's capabilities so it's unlikely to end up in the situation you predict.

I would think that a longer caravan would be safer to tow than a short caravan especially if the A frame is longer than normal.

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Think this thread has gone far enough now - I'm a Hobby owner; the biggest Hobby thats LEGALLY allowed to be towed behind a car in the Uk - we're just over 8m inc A Frame (6. 843m Body) and around 2. 5m wide. - we're on a single axle haven't been turned away from any Uk site (not been to Main-Land eurpe with her yet) BUT do see alot of Twin-axle Hobby's being towed with large 4x4's and Transit Van's. ..

 

Will you be stopped? Doubt it. Have i ever been stopped in 13 years of driving, with our without caravan? No. But i don't drive like an backside.

 

That being said, i woluldn't like to be any bigger than us for use on "normal" uk roads and campsites; there's places we're already too long for in the Uk.

 

ps. . should have added. Do i condone it? no. . but there's alot worse happenning on the roads. .!

Edited by ADG

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Whatever happened to 'small is beautiful'? :)

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.

 

Will you be stopped? Doubt it. Have i ever been stopped in 13 years of driving, with our without caravan? No. But i don't drive like an backside.

 

 

 

That is changing as the Government has given more money to DVSA (VOSA) for employing more enforcement officers to stop trailers and caravans . Getting stopped and checked will become common soon .

 

Dave

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The 7m body length is specific to the UK only.

 

 

 

A fifth wheel semi-trailer is towed by a 'tractor' unit and creates an articulated vehicle.

 

 

 

 

A fifth wheel trailer 02 can be towed by any size vehicle under 3500kg like a UK pickup they can be up to 40 ft long and because they are weighed by the axle weight of 3500 kg and they carry about 20% on the pin they can weigh 4300 kg GVW.

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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Think this thread has gone far enough now - I'm a Hobby owner; the biggest Hobby thats LEGALLY allowed to be towed behind a car in the Uk - we're just over 8m inc A Frame (6. 843m Body) and around 2. 5m wide. - we're on a single axle haven't been turned away from any Uk site (not been to Main-Land eurpe with her yet) BUT do see alot of Twin-axle Hobby's being towed with large 4x4's and Transit Van's. ..

 

Will you be stopped? Doubt it. Have i ever been stopped in 13 years of driving, with our without caravan? No. But i don't drive like an backside.

 

That being said, i woluldn't like to be any bigger than us for use on "normal" uk roads and campsites; there's places we're already too long for in the Uk.

 

ps. . should have added. Do i condone it? no. . but there's alot worse happenning on the roads. .!

I have emailed hobby for a list of twin axles that are the maximum size that can be towed in the uk with a 4 x 4. I was interested to hear what peoples experiences were. It seems that no one was bothered. One guy that contacted me towed one with an 8 metre body length and was stopped by VOSAa. He had a chat with VOSAa and they really weren't interested in the length, only the weight.

 

The 650 wfu looks to fit the bill but I'm just waiting for more info, I may also consider bigger but that would be with a change of tug most likely. I really wanted an eterniti but we all know what happened there sadly.

Edited by nme2no1

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Bit lost here, reading this thread just bought a bailey unicorn 3 cartagena length 7. 920 are you telling me i can't tow this legally on uk roads ?

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No, it's the body length that counts, not the shipping length that includes the front A-frame and hitch.

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No, it's the body length that counts, not the shipping length that includes the front A-frame and hitch.

Phew !!cheers for that, so another quick question when using a ferry what length do you put down body length or shipping length ?

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Shipping length as they need to know the total length of your outfit for space reservation purposes.

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I think this 7m rule is only on UK roads . It is a ridiculous law as vehicles are more capable now .

 

But if its a glider trailer it can be towed by any vehicle over 7 m also a semi rigid trailer can go upto 12. 2 m with any vehicle .

 

It will be harmonised with EU one day and I thought it might come in the latest regulations on trailers but it is our government that has to change the law unless EU threaten fines like the width issue .

 

 

Dave

Hi Dave, we are considering buying a 650 Uff Hobby because Bailey will not sell me a U3 Pamplona that they only make for the Australian market. I spoke to Bob Swaine from Bailey yesterday and I pleaded with him to let me have one, but he said it was never going to happen, so we have decided to buy a German van ( Quality ).

The 650's I have seen on the road are usually towed by Disco's or BMW X5's. We have a 2014 Shogun long wheelbase which is more than capable of towing the 2000kg max weight.

I am amazed that I can tow a glider trailer, but not a caravan that is 655mm longer than my current van. That's nuts, even if it is the law. What happened to us been equal to Europe.

I don't expect to have much luck, but I will endeavour to take it further.

The other question was what if I was a German visiting the UK with the same outfit. Then what.

PS I have also had an insurance quote from the CC for this van and they also have my car insurance so they know what will be towing it . ....

The van we have seen is very well built, with no wooden floor in the front lockers etc, etc. + even with Aldi heating as a factory option it still brings it in cheaper that most twin axle Uk vans.

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