Towing Advice Needed

[derekandsheena]

Hi everyone,

This is my first time to caravanning and have been looking at different caravans to buy but am a little confused as to which caravan would be suitable as trying to work out the different weights has gone over my head so i am hoping some of you experienced people on here can guide me in the right direction.

I am looking to buy a second hand caravan 4 berth fixed bed single axle but just need to know what the maximum my car can pull as in terms of a caravan.

I have a Citroen Picasso 1. 6 Diesel 2009

Height 1637mm

Length 4276mm

Wheelbase 2760mm

Width 1751mm

Gross Vehicle Weight 1850kg

Max Loading Weight 550kg

Max Towing Weight-Braked 1300kg

Max Towing Weight-Unbraked 690kg

Minimum Kerb Weight 1300kg

All help is greatly appreciated

[sleepyfolk]

Have a little look on here, you can search for different matches

http://www. whattowcar. com

[gumdrop]

Both Renault and Citroen don't deduct the driver/passenger from the payload,

if I remember correctly so your towing weight may be lower than at first glance.

Can someone confirm or deny this please.

[Lutz]

Both Renault and Citroen don't deduct the driver/passenger from the payload,

if I remember correctly so your towing weight may be lower than at first glance.

Can someone confirm or deny this please.

 

That would only apply if the maximum allowable gross train weight is less than the sum of max. gross vehcile weight and the braked towing weight.

[drummond]

I see that the max. towing weight is 1300kg. You will look for 85% of that, which is 1105kg. The maximum weight - known as the MTPLM- of the caravan, and it's on the side somewhere, should not exceed that.

 

This is most certainly not a legal limit. However, it is a good guide for those new to towing. The maximum allowed weight for the car is 1300kg, which ís the legal limit. Beyond that, I'm afraid that you've got to change the car.

[Lutz]

I see that the max. towing weight is 1300kg. You will look for 85% of that, which is 1105kg. The maximum weight - known as the MTPLM- of the caravan, and it's on the side somewhere, should not exceed that.

 

This is most certainly not a legal limit. However, it is a good guide for those new to towing. The maximum allowed weight for the car is 1300kg, which ís the legal limit. Beyond that, I'm afraid that you've got to change the car.

 

The 85% recommendation is based on the kerbweight of the car, not the max. towing weight although, in this case, by pure coincidence it happens to be the same thing.

 

To remain strictly legal, the MTPLM of the caravan can be higher than maximum towing weight. The actual axle load of the caravan must not exceed the towing weight, regardless of what the MTPLM is.

[ribs99]

 

To remain strictly legal, the MTPLM of the caravan can be higher than maximum towing weight. The actual axle load of the caravan must not exceed the towing weight, regardless of what the MTPLM is.

 

Is it me or did that statement make no sense at all

 

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of caravaning, you've started down a very exciting road which can be very confusing and sometimes expensive. We've recently entered into this wonderful pastime and we were in a similar predicament to you as our Peugeot 307 1. 6 Diesel seriously limited what we could tow. We opted to replace the car and then buy a caravan (all within the same month!) but it allowed us to buy a suitable caravan rather than opting for one because of it's weight.

 

Working out what you can tow can be very confusing, the figures you've given above don't mention the GTW (Gross Train Weight) which is the maximum your car+van can weigh to be legal but you've stated that the maximum braked weight is 1300KG. If you purchased a van like ours which has a maximum permitted weight of 1298KG then you would be towing at close to 100% which isn't ideal for starting out.

 

You can lower the weight of the van by moving stuff to the car but you still must abide by the GTW limit.

 

Lastly there's the whole B+E driving license problem but you don't need worry about this unless your GTW is above 3500KG

 

This forum is a great resource so stick around and ask as many questions as needed until you get the right answers.

 

Good luck!

[drummond]

Lutz, I was answering the OP's question in a simple manner. You, and I, know that it's not quite that simple, but as the kerbweight of his car is the same as the towing weight, I thought that the point made is valid.

[Lutz]

 

Is it me or did that statement make no sense at all

 

Let me try to explain using two examples:

 

Max. towing weight: 1300kg

 

1. MTPLM of caravan 1350kg distributed as 1280kg on the axle, 70kg noseweight - LEGAL, so long as the max. gross train weight is not exceeded.
2. MTPLM of caravan 1500kg, but actual weight 1350kg - ALSO LEGAL so long as the noseweight exceeds 50kg and so long as the actual gross train weight is within its limit.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Lutz

[ribs99]

 

 

Let me try to explain using two examples:

 

Max. towing weight: 1300kg

 

1. MTPLM of caravan 1350kg distributed as 1280kg on the axle, 70kg noseweight - LEGAL, so long as the max. gross train weight is not exceeded.
2. MTPLM of caravan 1500kg, but actual weight 1350kg - ALSO LEGAL so long as the noseweight exceeds 50kg and so long as the actual gross train weight is within its limit.

 

 

Thanks for explaining that. What you're saying is by shifting some of the weight to the nose you're reducing it on the axle?

 

Of course the problem is then the nose weight exceeds the recommended weight which in our case is 75KG

[Wunny]

I have the same car, had the same questions, came up with an Orion. Suits us perfectly. We wanted the option of a dinette and so opted for a 440-4.

 

 

But for a fixed bed, a 430-4 will suit you nicely sir.

 

http://www. dycecaravans. co. uk/downloads/2014/bailey-orion-brochure. pdf

[drummond]

I think that this is going right away from "towing advice" and towards the "85%" thread.

 

Lutz, if I understand you, you can tow a caravan of greater weight provided that it's unloaded, and/or that it stays in a steady state behind the tow vehicle. The latter is not the case in England!

[Lutz]

I think that this is going right away from "towing advice" and towards the "85%" thread.

 

Lutz, if I understand you, you can tow a caravan of greater weight provided that it's unloaded, and/or that it stays in a steady state behind the tow vehicle. The latter is not the case in England!

 

I don't know what you mean by "it stays in a steady state". The limits that are specified always apply at rest on level ground. Of course, when the caravan is being towed, dynamic loads can be a lot more, whether in England or elsewhere. Or do you mean that payload can shift around inside while towing? That wouldn't be a good thing at the best of times.

 

 

 

Thanks for explaining that. What you're saying is by shifting some of the weight to the nose you're reducing it on the axle?

 

Of course the problem is then the nose weight exceeds the recommended weight which in our case is 75KG

 

Of course, you have to stay with the specified noseweight limit, in your case of 75kg.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Lutz

[dave21120]

Hello and welcome to caravanning, its a great hobby and we for sure have had many lovely trips

 

By chance I have the same towcar as you (mine is the 92HP diesel) and it makes a very good stable towcar. I can help a litttle with weights, because I have actually weighed mine and can tell you that it weighs (empty boot, with towbar attached, fuel and me in at 80kg) a slightly whopping 1530kg. ..

 

Yours will not be identical due to manufacturing tolerances etc, but I would not expect it to be that much different. This is good news as it means the car towing limit of 1300kg (the maximum weight you can tow with the picasso) is 85% of the kerbweight, so if you tow a van that weighs 1300kg (and mine does) you have weight on your side still.

 

The bad news is that this high kerbweight does reduce your payload from the maximum gross vehicle weight of 1850kg, down to just 320kg. If you were to tow the full 1300kg you would need to consider what you put in the car as for example, three adult passengers and some luggage could put you very close to your gross vehicle weight and hence gross train weight as well.

 

The gross train weight for our cars is 3150kg by the way, meaning you can at least (from a legal point of view) use all of the towing weight limit of 1300kg on top of a fully laden car at gross vehicle weight if you wish.

 

Even with 1300kg van and passengers the 1. 6 diesel is more than up to the task of lugging it all around. Just make sure you adjust your tyre pressures accordingly and check noseweight (the weight of the caravan hitch on the towball) is less than 80kg (Citroen specified limit). As others have said, you can manipulate this to a degree, with careful van loading.

 

So in summary (and this is just my opnion), I would say that the Xsara Picasso:

 

1) Is good as a towing vehicle provided you stick within its published limits

2) Due to higher than published kerbweight it is reasonable to consider caravans with a MTPLM up to 1300kg towing limit, as long as you are careful with your car loading.

 

I think this gives you access to several fixed bed 4 berths from Bailey/Swift, but this is not my best area as we have children, so need bunks. .

 

All the best

 

David

[derekandsheena]

i would like to say a big thank you to you all for your help

 

I am an artic driver and to be honest these weights really went over my head but i did understand it and also we are excited at the prospect of owning a caravan and once we are established we will be trading our car in and buying a more expensive model that suits our needs as it is only my wife and i that will use it oh and two dogs and just wanted a fixed bed caravan for ease so while my wife is asleep i can sit at the table.

Thanks to all