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Everything posted by Lutz

  1. Of course, in the case you have described, the oufit can be driven on a Category B licence, because the combination of the vehicle and the trailer has a maximum authorised mass of 3000kg which is less than 3500kg, not because the sum of the maximum authorised mass of the vehicle and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer doesn't exceed 3500kg. This sum (3500kg) is not the maximum authorised mass of the combination.
  2. If that's really the case, then licensing law is different to regulations governing technical requirements, which I doubt. If one were to weigh the complete outfit loaded up to its maximum permissible gross train weight, then this will never equal the sum of the car's GVW and the trailer's MTPLM.
  3. There's no way any car will be able to accelerate out of a snake. You'd need something with rocket power to do that.
  4. There are more things to put right in the site's towing advice: Under "3. 5 tonne rule" it says "So for example, a vehicle weighing 1. 5 tonnes but with a MAM of 2. 25 tonnes can tow a trailer with a MAM of 1. 25 tonnes because this combination does not exceed 3. 5 tonnes", but the MAM of the outfit is not the sum of the MAM of the car and the MAM of the caravan. It is less than this sum. Under "Carweight allowances" it says "You should also check the listed ‘kerb weight’. This is the total weight of the car with all the standard and necessary equipment included but without any passengers, the load and the fuel.", but kerbweight is with fuel. Under "How do I calculate how much weight my caravan can carry?" it says weigh the whole outfit more or less empty and then the caravan on its own. Deduct one from the other and you get the actual kerbweight of the car, which is fair enough, but then it goes on to say ".... this will give you the weights up to which you can load your car . ....." without pointing out that you need to make allowance for the noseweight, which will effectively reduce your available payload. Then there is the advice that noseweight should be measured with the caravan level, which is not strictly true. It should be measured with the caravan standing as it would when hitched up to the car, taking into account that it may be nose down or slightly nose up.
  5. I don't wish to appear contemptuous, but the amendment of 2012 says just that and I don't understand why I should need an MP to tell me what is plainly obvious just by reading the text. Already early on in this thread it was clear that there are more errors in the gov. uk weblinks last referred to. In particular, it was the https://www. gov. uk/towing-with-car link that suggested a two-tier Category B licence, which was also plainly wrong.
  6. If you choose alloy wheels make sure you get ones suitable for a light commercial vehicle. Just as tyre loads are usually higher on caravans than a car, so the wheels should also be reinforced to match.
  7. By the way, as the DSA mentions the DVLA in their letter it is safe to assume that the two government agencies have taken the trouble to concur on this issue before replying.
  8. Personally, I'd have less faith in an MP getting a usable answer than the DSA. If the requirement that the Mass in Service of the towcar must be greater than the trailer MAM were only abolished for Category B licences issued after 19. 01. 2013 it would be tantamount to the introduction of a two-tier Category B licence, which the DSA themselves described in their letter as nonsense. If that really were the case, all one would have to do is to claim that you've lost your licence and have a replacement issued with the current date, which would be after the 19. 01. 2013. When I exchanged my old licence for one of the new EU-style ones, the date of issue shown on the new licence was when it was made out (in November 2006) and not when I passed my test (in May 1965). Where would that leave Mr. Plod if there really were a first and second class Category B licence?
  9. Of course, I meant to say, "I think the issue regarding the trailer not weighing more than the towing vehicle is just about resolved".
  10. Anyone know whether the wheel nut failure is predominantly on alloy wheels or just as much on steel wheels? I'd have a possible explanation if it were mainly alloy wheels.
  11. I think the issue regarding the trailer not weighing more than the towing vehicle is all but resolved. Anything to the contrary would be farcical and would need to be followed up. Note concerning the weight of the combination: If the trailer of maximum allowable MTPLM for the combination in question is hitched up to a car that is already at its max. allowable GVW in the solo condition, the combination would exceed the maximum allowable gross train weight and the car would then also be over its GVW once hitched up to the trailer. Hence, adding GVW of the car with the trailer on the back and the MTPLM of the trailer doesn't make sense because it's not the total weight of the oufit.
  12. But the maximum authorised mass of the combination is what is plated as maximum allowable gross train weight. Adding max. allowable GVW and max. allowable MTPLM doesn't make sense as this will always be greater than the maximum allowable gross train weight.
  13. However, the regulations stipulate that noseweight shall be measured on level ground with the hitch at the same height as when the trailer is attached to the car. This makes sense, because that represents the actual static forces acting on the towbar, upon which the car manufacturer bases his tests to verify the structural integrity of the vehicle underbody and determines the specified limits.
  14. Yes, after two replies from the DSA which did nothing but reaffirm the text that you have quoted, I wrote back a third time asking how they can reconcile such advice with the wording of legislation. Looks like they finally saw the light.
  15. If that is the case, it sounds as though your automatic gearbox need recalibrating.
  16. I have no issue with anything that you have written except that you have still not provided any reference that the MAM of a combination is defined as the sum of the individual MAM's of the towing vehicle and the MAM of the trailer. It would be absurd to claim that this is so for licencing purposes, but technically the plated max. allowable gross train weight applies. That would be like having two different definitions for the same thing. However, returning to the issue that was originally raised in this thread, this gets a new perspective in the light of the following letter that I have received from the DSA: Driving Standards Agency PO Box 280 NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE NE99 1FP T 0300 200 1122 F 0300 200 1155 www. gov. uk/dsa Our ref: 1306/01360 10 July 2013 Thank you for your email of 25 June about towing a trailer. The regulations that came into effect from 19 January 2013, are the motor vehicle (driving licences) (amendment) regulations 2012. These regulations amend the main Statutory Instrument number 2864/1999 and specifically at schedule 2, they amend the definition of a category B vehicle so that a category B vehicle from 19 January 2013 is classified as: “Motor vehicles having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3. 5 tonnes and not more than 8 seats in addition to the driver’s seat including: A combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the trailer has a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750kgs; and A combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3. 5 tonnes.” These changes which came into effect from 19 January 2013 offer a relaxation to the previous rules for a category B in that the trailer no longer has to weigh less than the unladen weight of the tractor vehicle, instead it would be down to type approval to determine what size trailer can be towed by a specific vehicle. We also apply this relaxation to anyone who has obtained a category B before 19 January 2013, as it would be a nonsense not to. If you have any further queries, please direct them to the Drivers and Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA). You can find their contact details here. Yours sincerely Steven Watson Corporate Correspondence Customer Operations customer. services@dsa. gsi. gov. uk Nice to know that there are some sensible people at the DSA, too
  17. Where is that written? I can't find any piece of legislation that would support the above statement. How come? So long as you don't tow or tow a trailer less than 750kg MAM a C1 licence will entitle you to drive anything up to a MAM of 7500kg, regardless of the maximum allowable GTW. If the trailer is heavier, you need a C1+E licence which would allow up to 12000kg combined MAM. Only beyond that do you need a C licence. Correct But you have agreed in your previous paragraph that the weight of the combination is the sum of all axle weights, i. e. with both towcar and the trailer on the scales together. As the weight of the towcar is the sum of its front and rear axle weights, that just leaves the axle weight of the trailer unaccounted for, not its total weight. Therefore, the weight of the combination is the weight of the car (with the trailer attached, but with the trailer itself not on the scales) plus the axle load of the trailer, i. e. a second measurement with just the trailer on the scales, but still attached to the car. That, by the way, is the towload. The 5% tolerance can be used for other purposes.
  18. I don't know what legislation you have been reading, but in the text I have in front of me it says "(ii)a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3. 5 tonnes.”. No mention of GVW and MTPLM. The maximum authorised mass of the combination is the plated maximum allowable gross train weight, and that is the sum of GVW of the towcar and the towload, which is defined as follows: " 'Towable mass' means the mass of the trailer towed excluding the vertical load on the coupling point of the towing vehicle." 'Excluding the vertical load on the coupling point' means minus the noseweight. So, the towload of a caravan at its MTPLM is MTPLM less the noseweight.
  19. We're in danger of going through the whole discussion all over again. The combined maximum weight of car and caravan is not GVW plus MTPLM. The combined weight of the car/caravan outfit is the sum of the load on all axles. The sum of the load on the front and rear axle of the towcar is its GVW, leaving the axle load of the caravan, not its overall weight. Hence, you can't add GVW and MTPLM together to calculate the combined weight. If your car has an MAM of 2140kg then the max. allowable towload, must not exceed 1360kg or else you need a B+E licence,
  20. I agree that in reality, it won't happen very often. Only if one is darned close to the limit in the first place, but it's not an issue limited to Category B licence holders only. It can affect anyone.
  21. Not only the rear axle load could go over the limit, but the GVW, too. After all, GVW is the sum of the front and rear axle loads. Some cars have maximum allowable front and rear axle loads which, if added together, exceed the maximum allowable GVW, so one can only make full use of one of the two limits, but never both at the same time.
  22. There's an error in that advice. It says the noseweight should be measured with the caravan level. That is not correct. It should be measured with the caravan at the same attitude as when it is hitched up to the car. If it's nose down, the noseweight should also be measured nose down. If it's slightly nose up, then noseweight should also be measured nose up.
  23. OK, I'll try top make it as simple as possible:
  24. SORN is not an issue if there is no need to register the caravan. The way things stand, if the proposal is pushed through, caravans will get an MOT sticker, much the same as is already the case with trailers over 3500kg.
  25. Outside normal service intervals, torqueing of wheel bolts is only mentioned as being necessary following a wheel change and again after 50km. That's fair.
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