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Everything posted by Lutz

  1. Even if they swept up all the debris and weighed it, how would they know exactly how much of the debris was part of the kerbweight and what belonged to the payload? Some items could be either.
  2. The trouble is that quite a lot of owners put a lot of faith in published kerbweight values and expect them to represent the actual weight of their particular vehicle. At least some manufacturers are starting to quote a range of weights to cover the various versions and variants, but that leaves those in a quandary who want to work out their weight ratios to decimal places, even though there is little point in doing so.
  3. The only snag with using mass in running order is that it applies only to the one vehicle that the manufacturer submitted for type approval, and that, according to the definition, should be for the base vehicle with the minimum of factory fitted options to make it saleable. More appropriate and closer to the actual kerbweight would be the "actual mass", documented as item 13.2 in the Certificate of Conformity, but therein lies the next problem. UK owners aren't normally issued with a copy of the CofC as a matter of course, even though one has a right to receive it free of charge and without request.
  4. It just goes to show that it's high time to stop making any references to kerbweight. Confusion will continue to reign as long as the term is used.
  5. If it's not linked to a specific vehicle it can't be kerbweight, but only an approximation. Besides, they won't know what permanent features were added after the vehicle left the factory and which would affect the kerbweight. A typical case in question would be a panel van which has been privately converted by the owner into a campervan. Obviously the kerbweight will have changed from any ex-works figure due to the conversion.
  6. The magazine that I subscribe to, a German one, always tests outfits at the towload limit of the towing vehicle, even if that is in excess of 100%. They argue that if the combination is any good at that limit it will only be even better with a lighter caravan. Also, because nobody on the other side of the Channel has ever heard of an 85% recommendation, a not insignificant percentage of owners make full use of what is legally allowed.
  7. Indeed it should, especially as kerbweight as it is defined is not documented anywhere.
  8. The caravan will have a max limit, too. In most cases it will be 100kg, but you need to check the weight plate to be sure.
  9. I made no attempt to correct your statement. There was nothing wrong with it. I just wanted to underline the fact that not only do the EU Regs define mass in running order (mass in service is a misnomer introduced by the DVSA), but that they don't even mention the term kerbweight.
  10. In fairness, the blame must rest squarely on the shoulders of the manufacturers who, more often than not, talk about kerbweight when they really mean mass in running order.
  11. The EU regulations don't define kerbweight at all. In fact, the regulations don't even mention the term kerbweight. The regulations refer to mass in running order and actual mass only. Unlike mass in running order, kerbweight is specific to each and every vehicle in question. In other words, kerbweight is valid for each individual chassis number only. A figure published in technical specs, owner's handbook or brochure can, on the other hand, only be generic because it does not reflect individual factory-fitted options or permanently fitted accessories. It cannot, therefore, be a true kerbweight.
  12. It's still up to the driver, though. I have seen outfits on the motorway weaving left and right whether due to an unfavourable weight ratio or simply poor weight distribution and yet they are still determined to press on at the legal speed limit, others intent on taking downhill stretches, possibly vulnerable to crosswind, too, without even lifting their foot off the accelerator. It's just like those that don't adjust their speed in poor visibility. They are simply not driving to suit the conditions. By applying necessary due care and attention there is basically no limit to the weight ratio, although it does mean that towing a caravan at 100% weight ratio or more might limit one to a safe speed of 50mph or even less, depending on the road and weather conditions. UK legislation covers the definition of kerbweight reasonably well. The biggest problem is that kerbweight is not documented anywhere.
  13. What is safe and what is dangerous is entirely up to the driver exercising due care and attention. Obviously, the heavier the caravan relative to the towcar the bigger the demands placed on the driver, but in the end it's always up to him/her.
  14. Regarding what's in the tank it's the other way round. Kerbweight, according to UK legislation, is with a full fuel tank (and all factory fitted options). Mass in Service is with a 90% full tank, plus 75kg for the driver, as you say, and only the bare minimum level of equipment to make the vehicle saleable
  15. I apologise. I confused the OP's post with the details that Dangerous quoted.
  16. But kerbweight was not the issue here. The OP's towcar has a kerbweight well in excess of the MTPLM of the caravan. The issue was that the axle load of the caravan may exceed the published towing limit and I don't know of any insurance policy which makes any reference to such. Bear in mind that many manufacturers have flexible towing limits. The published one only refers to the limit for up to a 12% gradient, as required according to the regulations. However, many manufacturers allow higher limits if the combination is going to be used of flatter terrain, so long as the gross train weight limit is not exceeded.
  17. Why? I don't know of any insurance policy with such a clause.
  18. The towing limit doesn't refer to the total weight of the caravan, but only its axle load, so actually you've got a slightly bigger margin to play with before you exceed the limit. Is the kerbweight of your car really 2300kg? Unless it's a very hefty 4x4 that figure sounds very high.
  19. There's no inconsistency in those figures. The 85% ratio is just a recommendation aimed to cover special circumstances that apply to towing a caravan, but the allowable towable weight is a technical limit, without regard for the type of trailer being towed or the ability or experience of the driver.
  20. If VW are including 75kg for driver, a 90% full fuel tank and stating that it only refers to the base model then they are not quoting kerbweight, although they may be calling it that. The figure that they are quoting would actually be mass in running order (also known as mass in service). You're right. Kerbweight is specific to each and every vehicle so any published figure that you may find in a handbook, brochure or database can be no more than a rough guide. Kerbweight, by definition, includes factory fitted extras and retro fitted accessories.
  21. The MIRO figure is not very helpful, because it would only apply to the one car that VW submitted for type approval and we don't know what level of specification it had. Unlike MIRO, kerbweight includes the weight of all factory fitted options.
  22. The CoC is of no help as regards kerbweight, though, because the CoC doesn’t document the kerbweight. The closest it gets to the kerbweight figure is “actual mass” under item 13.2, but that would include 75kg for the driver, which is not included in the kerbweight
  23. The same applies if you use engine braking by sequential gear downchange instead of applying the foot brake.
  24. Trouble is, that truck pumps often have bigger nozzles that won't go into a car's filler pipe.
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