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walter

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About walter

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  1. We lost a wheel from our 2 month old Bailey Pegasus 554 in a tunnel near Naples in May 2011. Although there was a recall on the Bailey Unicorn due to the same problem (i. e. wheel loss) neither the dealer (Penrose in Cornwall) nor Baileys would accept to repair the caravan under Warrenty, but told us to claim through the Insurers. Their excuse was that we did not torque the wheels whilst travelling – a let-out that the Judge would not accept. This had not been pointed out to us during the hand-over of the caravan. Obviously we did not wish to lose our ‘no claims bonus’ so paid for the repair ourselves and then took the dealer to Court (March 2012) – we won the case including all costs. The judge ripped into the dealer about not honouring the act, and reminded them how lucky they were that no-one was injured as they could have faced a totally different Court. They were cautioned and told to report his findings to Baileys. We did report the loss to VOSA as we read that several other Pegasus owners had had the same problem. Since that time Baileys have not only changed the bolts but the torque as well. And yes, even then Baileys charged us for the new bolts! We are told to torque to 130nm, then at a later date 120nm. I do torque the wheels every time we hook up. I cannot understand why Bailey do not upgrade all bolts (free of charge) due to the safety element and the problems proven.
  2. Any problems like this should be reported to VOSA to enable VOSA to take the appropriate action - possibly by seeing that these faults are checked at servicing time which in turn should be reported back to VOSA. VOSA are not aware of many of the defects - simply because they are not reported, and this is mainly because claimants are advised (as we were wrongly) to claim off their Insurance. Martin Ryder (Automotive Engineer Defect Investigation of VOSA) did request that I endeavour to get people who have had faults to contact him by filling in the form from the internet with as much information as possible. Yours may be an area that has not been looked into before. We are not trying to have a go at the manufacturers or dealers. What is so important is that we all work together - including the customer - to make caravanning as safe as possible.
  3. I think all these faults should be reported to VOSA, otherwise VOSA will have no knowledge. The majority of cases accidents get reported to the Insurance Companies (as we were told to do). VOSA had just 3 reports of Pegasus Wheel detachments which were not enough for them to insist Baileys investigating, although we know there were several more. I shall be advising VOSA re our Court Success because the Judge did take the incident extremely seriously. He cautioned the dealer telling them they could have found themselves in a very different situation had there been a fatality or third party injured. It doesn't bear thinking about i. e. we could now be in an Italian court on a very different charge. It was the motor mover that saved us from a serious accident i. e. the caravan used the motor mover as a skid. There was a coach behind us and traffic either way during the rush hour in an extremely narrow3 kilometre long Italian tunnel, no tunnel lights or hard shoulder - we managed to get to a very narrow lay-by about 300 metres ahead. It was terrifying and I would not wish it upon anyone. We ask that you please report it to VOSA - lives could be saved. You can download the from off the Internet.
  4. Here is a copy of the Court Judgement
  5. You may remember we had a wheel detachment on our 2 month old Pegasus 554 last May and neither Dealer (Penrose Touring) nor Baileys would repair under Warranty, insisting it was an Insurance matter. The dealer refused to accept the Sales of Goods Act, stating that we did not ‘torque the wheels upon every hitch-up as per the handbook’. We had the caravan repaired at our own cost, sent the bill to our dealer who refused to pay. This was last October. I took the dealer to the Bodmin Small Claims Court (under £5000) on March 8th 2012. The Judge found in my favour and awarded all money plus Court Costs and expenses incurred. The dealer was cautioned and told him they must advise Baileys of his findings as there is obviously a fault - this is very serious. He warned the dealer they may well have found themselves in an entirely different situation had anyone, or third party been injured or a fatality incurred. He reminded them of the Sales of Goods Act confirming I was correct and they should have repaired the caravan. He advised them the Insurance Company could retrieve their expenditure. The fact that Baileys state the wheels should be 'torqued upon every hitch-up' shows him that Baileys are aware there is a fault. Do not be fobbed off by your dealer or Baileys.
  6. You may remember we had a wheel detachment on our 2 month old Pegasus 554 last May and neither dealer nor Baileys would repair under Warranty and insisted it was an Insurance matter. The dealer refused to accept the Sales of Goods Act, and so we had it repaired at our own cost, sent the bill to our Dealer who refused to pay. This was last October. We took them to the Small Claims Court (under £5000) on March 8th 2012 and the Judge, after 2 1/2 hours found in my favour and awarded us all money plus Court Costs and expencies incurred. He also 'cautioned' the dealer to go back to Baileys as there is obviously a fault. He warned the dealer they may well have found themselves in an entirely different situation had anyone, or third party been injured or a fatality incurred. He told the Dealer he should recognise the Sales of Goods Act - so DO NOT be fobbed off by either your Dealer or Baileys.
  7. As per our previous articles our wheel detached from our Pegasus. We have now been told by Baileys that we can use the new bolts at our own expense and the torque will remain at 110Nm. VOSA recommended to us they would use the new bolts on our Pegasus and confirmed we must do what the manufacturer state. As this type of bolt has been around for many years it is fairly obvious they will start fitting these to all caravans in the future. Could somebody please explain to us why we can't use the new torque of 160Nm.
  8. Firstly I would like to thank the people who have supported me, and I totally understand the people who have criticized, but I will clarify the incident: The detachment was in a dimly lit 3 kilometer long 2 way tunnel in Italy. The Red Pennant mechanic refitted the wheel which was on the off-side for Italy and in an extremely dangerous situation. Therefore I could not visually see what he was doing. The fitter telephoned 'somebody' and gave me the phone for the translation. The translator's instruction was to continue our journey but to check the wheel bolts every 100 ks and to travel at 70kph. We then towed to the nearest caravan site to settle our nerves. The damage to our caravan was very slight because the caravan had dropped onto the motor-mover, and so the hub did not come in contact with the ground. There was no vibration, no snaking, no sway and I truly believed we just had a blow-out at the time. We rang our local Bailey dealer in Cornwall as the caravan was only 2 months old, told him the situation and he advised us to find an AL-KO Agent ourselves. We insisted that he tell us as we had no means of doing this. Red Pennant was also unsuccessfully in locating an AL-KO dealer. One Agent was bank-rupt, the other two were miles away in the North of Italy, and as we do not speak Italian the agents kept replacing the phone on us. We contacted our dealer again and he informed Baileys. Baileys came back with a questionnaire which we answered honestly i. e. admitting I had not torqued the wheels - so they also were fully aware of our situation. The questionnaire is the first time we have been made aware of the torquing - other than the fact it is in the handbook. Neither Baileys nor our dealer, or Red Pennant suggested we should get the caravan repatriated. I have no idea how to insist upon a situation whereby I would be going against Professional advice. We did however manage to find a large caravan dealer about half-way home. They came out and checked the caravan, changed the bolts for new bolts and it was only when he was tightening the 5th bolt that we knew the thread had stripped. He insisted that 4 bolts were adequate and advised us to continue our journey - checking the bolts and driving slowly. Upon our return to Cornwall we stripped the caravan and returned it to our dealer expecting him to carry out an investigation and keep it for repair. However, he visually looked at the caravan and told us to take the caravan home and he would send us the estimate. We would not be covered by the warranty. No physical investigation was made. For the record I do check my tyres, check my nose weight, do not use an awning, do not allow my wife to overload the van, plus all the normal checks upon hitching up ie lights etc. We have our caravan serviced every year, tyres changed every 4 years. I have been an Assistant Warden on Caravan Sites, previously owned my own site for 16 years (campsitesincornwall. co. uk), towed many rigs for people who have been unable to for one reason or another - usually ill-health, and have never checked the torque, or seen anyone checking the torque on their wheels or even using a wheel brace before leaving the site. I therefore have never met CaptainSensible but I would dearly like to. I am now totally converted and will always check the torque should it did happen again I have eliminated my part of the deal, and I will always advise others to do the same. For safety reasons we ask that anyone else to whom this has happened please report the incident to VOSA . VOSA are having a meeting with Baileys in September. This is our first and last Bailey caravan.
  9. As Baileys have not recalled any Peggy 1s or Peggy 2, or any other models - there is NO WARRANTY if you loose a wheel. So, you are left with claiming on your Insurance as we are. We have been told by Baileys that even if we fit the new bolts at our own expense, the torque is still 110Nm. We have a Pegesus 554 and lost a wheel 2 months after we bought it! Whilst the Insurance Companies are happy to pay out - it is not problem to the dealer or to Baileys to tell their customers to go through the Insurance Company. VOSA is fully aware of the situation.
  10. The Spare wheel is steel on the Pegasus. It states in our handbook: Page 2-11 2. 3. 14 Wheels states 'for steel wheels the wheel bolts should be tightened to a torque of 88Nm' Page 2-12 2. 3. 16 Changing a wheel that 'Alloy wheel bolts used on a steel spare wheel should be torqued to the same settings'. (do you read this as 110Nm as I do?) HOWEVER: Page 4-38 xvii. 'if the road wheels have been removed, re-tighten using a calibrated Torque Wrench to 88Nm to all M12 wheel bolts' The ALKO ATC owner instruction Manual states 'Standard AL-KO caravan chassis use M12 wheel bolts. These must always only be tightened to the correct torque setting of 88 Nm'. No mention of 110Nm anywhere in the manual.
  11. We find with the caravan completely empty, with only the gas cylinders in the front we have a nose weight of about 62 kgs. We are limited to 13 kgs in the front area of the caravan and we achieve this but ours is a lateral fixed bed and we have our wardrobes and cupboards so use these for our clothes. The kitchen area and the battery are both central to the caravan therefore central to the axle. The aqua roll is inside the car - 75 kgs is the citreon limit on the towbar. We had a Citreon Synegy for 10 year before this Citreon C8 with a Swift Chasima 550 STEEL WHEELS and never any problem. We wish we had never traded it in! I wanted the ATC for the extra safety but now think I could have been wrong. It has knocked our confidence but I feel we will go back to steel wheels. We are hoping Baileys will admit the same thing is happening to the Pegasus as the Unicorn.
  12. As per our previous articles we lost a wheel from a 2 month old Pegasus. Baileys nor the dealer have bothered to investigate as to the reason why - putting it solely down to torquing the wheels before every journey. I think what you written is very applicable as it may require the help of EVERYBODY in choosing the correct equipment. If we all answered the questions honestly put by you it would help research into this problem. I will therefore give you our information: Our van is a Pegasus 554, was 2 months old when the incident occurred. The MTPLM is 1492 kgs (this is 73 kgs lighter than the Valencia. We tow with a Citreon C8 173bhp Auto. When we tow we remove the 3rd row of seats so that we can carry our misc stuff ie chairs, BBQ, extra food. We check the nose weight of the caravan (75 kgs), we do not have an awning and there are just 2 senior citizans. We have towed for 42 years and fully understand the weight distrebution. We keep the caravan clear inside so that when we do stop we have easy access inside ie not stepping over everything. We have never experienced a violent snake in all the years of regular towing. Wheel heat: Immediately upon arrival and leveling the caravan we fit the ALKO wheel lock and I have not experienced the wheels being hot . Dealers:We were not given a copy of a PDI check, and at no time has our dealer mentioned that we must torque the wheels or referred us to the handbook about wheel torquing. The caravan was returned 4 weeks after purchase for the powractuator to be attached to the motor mover - so we would assume that the dealers would check the torque as they should know the importance of it. As the clamp force, the torque, the PCD and bolts are the same on both the Pegasus and Unicorn we believe that the 73kgs difference in weight does not make the difference to the 2 ranges being treated differently ie Baileys will not investigate the Pegasus range. We have given all our information to VOSA. The problem is either an ALKO problem or possible wheels that are badly out of balance which Baileys we understand do not see the need to balance. Enjoy your holiday and try not to worry and we hope to get our caravan back on the road - trying for the new bolts and higher torque!
  13. I assume your caravan is a Unicorn? Or, is it a Pegasus? Is your caravan a Unicorn or Pegasus?
  14. Please read our items of wheel detachment from our 2 month old Pegasus - make sure you torque the wheels as per the hand book, and then if you do lose a wheel maybe, just maybe, Baileys will repair under warranty! Remember they must be torqued after 30 miles unless you have done already. I certainly wish we could enjoy ours (after 42 years or caravanning things have changed for the worse since this terrible incident in a 2 way tunnel in Italy) IF this does happen to you, then please report it to VOSA who have asked Baileys to investigate the incident on the Pegasus - Baileys so far refuse. Happy caravanning
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