sampvt Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I have an older model motorhome that is a 4 berth, but only 2 seats forward facing. It is a rear lounge so no forward facing seats, so how do we get to travel with 4 people on board. I know newer models have belts fitted but how can we fit belts to an older model which does not have anchor points. 1 Quote Im back to motorhoming with a scooter on the back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNARF Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 It's not recomended to fit seatbelts to rear seats in a motorhome unless they are forward facing seats. knarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyJover Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Is it legal to carry folk in the back on non forward facing seats? Genuine question as it's something swmbo and I were discussing only a couple of days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNARF Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) There is no law against it but if there were an accident you could be charged with carrying passengers in an unsafe manner. Quote "• No, you do not need to fit seat belts for passengers in the back. • However, if you are carrying passengers in the back you must discuss and declare this to your insurance company. It is very likely that your insurance company will not let you travel with passengers in the back unless they are seated in forward facing seats and have a 3-point body restraint• If there are seat belts in the rear of the vehicle they must be worn. • It is not advised to travel seated sideways in the back." knarf Edited July 19, 2014 by KNARF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaboy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 How do the owners of older Land Rovers with side facing seats go on then? Hopefully some one who has owned or owns one will come along soon and give their advice. Quote 2013(13) Sorento KX2 2. 2 Diesel Manual, (With smelling clutch) Glittering Metal (Metallic Grey) dragging a 2020 Coachman VIP 520 with a Powrtouch Evolution Motor Mover (Towing @ 80. 0%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyJover Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 And military trucks with squaddies on board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I don't know the answer to squaddies or Land Rovers but KNARF is absolutely correct in what he posts. Elddis have a longstanding policy of never producing a van with more berths than forward facing, belted seats. The research on accidents involving sideways seating points out that it is quite the worst way for the human frame to sit in a swift deceleration incident, belted or unbelted, injuries can be horrific compared to forward facing. . Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Buses have side facing seats, do they not have to comply with driving laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Buses have side facing seats, do they not have to comply with driving laws? As has been said there is no law that specifically bans people from travelling in sideways seats, but police officers can charge a driver with allowing their passengers to travel in an unsafe manner and it would be that law that would apply. There are relatively few sideways seats on buses these days and they tend to travel at relatively low speed anyway and don't have to have safety belts either. However I suspect that it would be open for a prosecution to occur under the same law. If you want to see what happens in a simulated motorhome accident here's a link to the first of Bailey's tests and you can search youtube for the other four. It's impressive that by video 5 mods had been made to substantially minimise potential injury. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNARF Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) How do the owners of older Land Rovers with side facing seats go on then? Hopefully some one who has owned or owns one will come along soon and give their advice. And military trucks with squaddies on board? Buses have side facing seats, do they not have to comply with driving laws? None of the above are breaking any laws as there is no law forbidding it. Before someone picks it up rearward facing seats are OK with 3 point belts. knarf Edited July 19, 2014 by KNARF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACS Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 With regard to older Land Rovers, the key is in the word "older". Generally speaking the laws are not applicable retrospectively so older vehicles are exempt from modern requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaboy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 With regard to older Land Rovers, the key is in the word "older". Generally speaking the laws are not applicable retrospectively so older vehicles are exempt from modern requirements. So as the OP has stated "Older" model, this should not have the same constraints as newer models same rules apply??? Quote 2013(13) Sorento KX2 2. 2 Diesel Manual, (With smelling clutch) Glittering Metal (Metallic Grey) dragging a 2020 Coachman VIP 520 with a Powrtouch Evolution Motor Mover (Towing @ 80. 0%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 It's a topic that constantly reappears on motorhome forums. I don't think it's been aired yet on Motorhome Talk. Often it degenerates into a sterile debate about the legalities. I look at it another, more simplistic, way. It's dangerous, therefore don't do it. Surely you don't do things just because there is no hard and fast law that says you can't. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNARF Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 You keep referring to rules,there are no rules just notes of guidance. The offence you could be charged with would be transporting passengers in an unsafe manner and that would be up to the individual police officer. knarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACS Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 So as the OP has stated "Older" model, this should not have the same constraints as newer models same rules apply??? If that were the case many older vehicles would have to be scrapped if they could not be brought up to current standards. The OP stated that his motorhome did not have seat belt anchorages in the back. If they could not be added, should he be required to scrap his motorhome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyJover Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 DACS - I think you and Kia are actually agreeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Not scrapped, but just not used for more than two people. There are plenty of safe motorhomes about with up to six seats. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNARF Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 If that were the case many older vehicles would have to be scrapped if they could not be brought up to current standards. The OP stated that his motorhome did not have seat belt anchorages in the back. If they could not be added, should he be required to scrap his motorhome? Classic cars constructed without seatbelts don't have to be modified or scrapped, no difference. knarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigderby Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 As said it all comes down the year. If it's prior to April 1987 there's no legal requriement to have any rear seatbelts. All vehicles after that must have them, and they can be either 3 point or lap belts no matter which way the seats face. So if you've got a later vehicle you'd either need to get belts fitted, or never carry rear passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Our first campervan was a SWB Transit (just a smidge under 16ft long), about the same length as a Discovery. We bought it because it had two front swivel seats and behind them two 'proper' car type seats with proper belts. There was a gangway between the rear seats that led to kitchen on one side and loo and wardrobe on the other. Underneath the rear of the kitchen was a 2ft deep full-width 'boot' with a purpose built double dog crate. It meant we could travel with four people properly belted and two dogs safely crated and not about to start climbing over people or acting as missiles in the case of a sudden stop. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNARF Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 • All vehicles manufactured since 2001 must have seat belts fitted for each passenger. If you have had additional seats fitted (via a campervan/motorhome conversion) you are outside of this law. • From 20th October 2007, new vehicles will have to have seat belts fitted to all seats except those seats that are intended solely for when the vehicle is parked-up. knarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Aren't there rules now that the manufacturer must declare how many a van will seat. And I believe seating and seatbelts have to be type approved. This has and is causing lots of serious issues for small volume campervan conversion companies and some have stopped production of new vans and are only converting used vans built before the regs came into force. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiaboy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 DACS - I think you and Kia are actually agreeing. That's what I thought (Confused. Com) Quote 2013(13) Sorento KX2 2. 2 Diesel Manual, (With smelling clutch) Glittering Metal (Metallic Grey) dragging a 2020 Coachman VIP 520 with a Powrtouch Evolution Motor Mover (Towing @ 80. 0%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie106 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) This is an issue that I've never understood fully why manufacturers don't just have sufficient seating for the amount of births. Our Autotrail is a 6 birth. So I assumed it would have 6 seat belts, but it only has 4. I asked autotrail about fitting additional belts & they said that they had the drawings & specs to show where the anchor points were etc & would release details, but only to an approved workshop who could carry out the work. Fair enough but them I asked them why, if it had been designed to have these belts, they had not fitted them at the time? They said there was no requirement & quoted the guidelines saying that only children had to be restrained but that adults only had to wear belts 'if fitted'. Now to my mind surely it's better to fit them & they not be used, than to not fit at all, but them I haven't been making motor homes for the last umpteen years. It's only occurred twice that I had one more adult passenger than belts, so they sat in the forward facing rear seat. Edited July 20, 2014 by Woodie106 Quote I refer you to the Rt Hon Member for the 19th Century.....................pictured just to the left of your screen.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 It is a bit odd Woodie, like buying a 4 seated car and only having 2 seatbelts 'because some owners never use the back seats'. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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