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#101 Hector69

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:05 am

Does anyone on here wonder why some newbies are never seen again? I do.

. I don't , if the original o/p has read through all of this he is probably hanging from the rafters in his garage by now.
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#102 KNARF

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:12 am

A similar thread ran for 6 pages, same  arguments same posters, till the mods shut it down,all it did was confuse people even more than they were already..

knarf



#103 Lutz

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:11 pm

If there was a clear definition of the term  'Mass in Service'  life would be very boring for some contributors to CT.

 

John.     :D

 

But the definition is very clear. Article 2 paragraph 4 of 1230/2012/EU defines it as, quote:

 

(4)    ‘mass in running order’ means

(a) in the case of a motor vehicle:
the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools;
(b ) in the case of a trailer:
the mass of the vehicle including the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications, and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, additional coupling(s), the spare wheel(s) and the tools;

 

Note that it refers to 'standard equipment', so it doesn't include any factory fitted optional extras. These are included in the 'actual mass of the vehicle' (defined as such in paragraph 6 of the same regulation).


Edited by Lutz, 14 September 2017 - 12:27 pm.

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#104 Leedslad

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:32 pm

Thanks  for this Lutz.  Does anyone know if the Mass in Service figure in a UK V5c is the same as the 'mass in running order' figure defined in the  Article 2 paragraph 4 of 1230/2012/EU  above?

 

John.



#105 Lutz

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:04 pm

Thanks  for this Lutz.  Does anyone know if the Mass in Service figure in a UK V5c is the same as the 'mass in running order' figure defined in the  Article 2 paragraph 4 of 1230/2012/EU  above?

 

John.

 

Yes, it is the same. I questioned this with the DVLA and they confirmed.


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#106 Dobloseven

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:34 pm

Thank heavens for that,I shall be able to sleep tonight now.
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#107 AWanderingLancastrian

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:29 pm

AWL

 

Can you please advise us all whether you're a shareholder of this company in Runcorn, related to the owners or on commission. If not, you should be.

 

Hi Sda. In order of the enquiry. No No No. All I am doing is to promote a service that I have found to be convenient for me on distance to travel. 

Being that they manufacture,service and install the weighbridges/beam and above all else they actually have one sited on a dedicated yard with easy access and a receipt is given along with a confirmation weighbridge slip it is peace of mind at minimal cost.

My next trip over to them will be to have my 3 series 320i Touring weighed as I just might need to tow a boat trailer with a cabin cruiser on it before sailing around the world in my dreams.



#108 Dan Caravan Man

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 10:50 am

To summarise the previous 6 pages,

!If you can drive the van outta of the showroom, your car is fit to pull her" :D



#109 AWanderingLancastrian

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:27 am

To summarise the previous 6 pages,

!If you can drive the van outta of the showroom, your car is fit to pull her" :D

 

That is an absolute nonsense whether you are joking or not. The is a short video on YouTube showing a mini struggling uphill with a caravan on the back - so much-so that it stops and then gets dragged backwards.

It might well have pulled it out of a showroom or even a back yard that was on a level surface but that does not/did not make it legal.



#110 KNARF

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:42 am

There appears to be a severe attack of loss of sense of humour on this thread!

knarf


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#111 Omega54

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:21 pm

Some time ago I posted under the heading of 'MTPLM I'm a little confused' and after the responses I thought I have cracked it.. ... ..ah well I'm off to the pub!


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#112 Dan Caravan Man

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:36 pm

 

That is an absolute nonsense whether you are joking or not. The is a short video on YouTube showing a mini struggling uphill with a caravan on the back - so much-so that it stops and then gets dragged backwards.

It might well have pulled it out of a showroom or even a back yard that was on a level surface but that does not/did not make it legal.

 

Of course I am joking. :rolleyes:

People should ensure the safety of themselves, their families and other road users when choosing a tow car, caravan, when loading and driving!

People should also ensure they have the correct B&E driving license depending on their loading.towing conditions.

 

Yes, we have all seen the video of the little car towing the twin axle caravan.

 

Everyone on here is pretty well informed and clued up about towing principals. Its the specific details that people are debating,


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#113 bubble2015

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:14 pm

IMO SteamDrivenAndy cracked this in post 37.

He covered all the info that is need to check if the outfit is legal.

Well done SDA



#114 Simple Life

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 05:40 am

Call the AA.

https://www.theaa.co...o-tow-a-caravan

I win. 😅😅😑😑😨

Edited by Simple Life, 16 September 2017 - 05:41 am.


#115 Lutz

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 06:45 am

 

It's a pity that the AA can't read the real definitions, either when they say:

 

Mass in Running Order (MRO) or Kerb Weight normally includes a 90% full fuel tank, and the driver but no load other than standard equipment/tools.

 

Mass in Running Order is not the same as Kerb Weight.

 

And the following isn't strictly true, either:

 

The caravan's MTPLM must not be greater than the towing car's Maximum Permissible Towing Mass (MPTW).

 

Another mistake (out of date information):

 

A caravan over 750kg MAM as long as the MAM of the combined car and caravan is less than 3500kg and the MAM of the caravan is less than the un-laden weight of the car.

 

The bit about "MAM of the caravan is less than the un-laden weight of the car" ceased to apply in 2013.

 

So much for the AA.



#116 Simple Life

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 10:22 pm

 
It's a pity that the AA can't read the real definitions, either when they say:
 
Mass in Running Order (MRO) or Kerb Weight normally includes a 90% full fuel tank, and the driver but no load other than standard equipment/tools.
 
Mass in Running Order is not the same as Kerb Weight.
 
And the following isn't strictly true, either:
 
The caravan's MTPLM must not be greater than the towing car's Maximum Permissible Towing Mass (MPTW).
 
Another mistake (out of date information):
 
A caravan over 750kg MAM as long as the MAM of the combined car and caravan is less than 3500kg and the MAM of the caravan is less than the un-laden weight of the car.
 
The bit about "MAM of the caravan is less than the un-laden weight of the car" ceased to apply in 2013.
 
So much for the AA.

Well the Northen Irish government say the same as the AA.


And in 2017 Auto Express did so too.
http://www.autoexpre...rs-and-top-tips

So much for Lutz!

Oh by the way, are you still insisting that you can't travel with 0kg nose weight on an empty trailer?
Remember that one? You said you take your trailer to the recycle centre, (still call it the Tip up north) and once empty add weight to the nose.

Please.

Edited by Simple Life, 16 September 2017 - 10:30 pm.


#117 Lutz

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:51 am

My response was based on the wording of the legislation, including The Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use Regulations) 1986, Regulation 1230/2012/EU, and The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licence) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 all of which I believe give the latest details relevant to this thread. Neither the AA nor Auto Express quote the source of their information so it is impossible to verify their statements.






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