A Bit Of A Worry!

[Bernard in Tring]

Am I being unnecessarily pessimistic!

 

I tow a Coachman 520/4 with a 2012 plate Nissan X-Trail.

 

Three weeks ago I was shunted in the back end with the tow bar in position. This was pushed forward/under; rear sensors are no more neither is rear bumper. Lip of exhaust tail pipe bent. Inside floor shows what appeared to be slight buckling with a side-to-side ‘fold’ result is some three thousand pounds plus in parts plus labour. Swear the car looked an inch and half shorter. It’s paranoia.

 

Being carried out with full acceptance of being at fault by the other driver. I stopped at manually operated road signs Stop/Go; he did not!

 

I’m scheduled to get the car back tomorrow and the work has been carried out by my insurance nominated repairer. I’m told it comes with a five-year warranty. In no way am I being critical of the repairer; I’ve no experience in this field; I’m trying to deal with gut feelings.

 

A week today I’m due to tug an initial 214 miles to Yorkshire then on to Northumberland and back to Yorkshire. In total just short of nine hundred miles over a three-week period.

 

Am I being unnecessarily pessimistic as to the overall safety of the car following a rear-end shunt? Had not planned to but would I be better getting shot of the X-Trail because it will never be the same again, or rally forth with absolute confidence all is well and in order with no worries?

 

Any comments from those who have experienced a similar experience would be appreciated.

 

Bernard in Tring

 

[milkymarsh]

Has the insurance company done a check of the chassis to make sure it's not been twisted as the towbar heads straight back that way and I'd be concerned that if it's been pushed back that far, then there may be something else that needed to be looked at rather than bodywork etc

[AWanderingLancastrian]

Hi Bernard. Is the X-Trail an automatic ? If it is I would also have the gear-boxed check-out by an automatic gear-box specialist as there could easily be some damage that will show-up under test conditions or worse still in the future and whilst your still own the vehicle.

Edited August 20, 2017 by AWanderingLancastrian

[Guest]

It will all depend on how thorough the repair company has been. It should really have been on an alignment jig and it sounds like yours has had quite a bump. There is no way to straighten bent metal back into it's original state, the nature and shape of the metal will have changed permanently.

How comfortable you feel about it only you can say, for me with most things in life that need a decision I ask myself, 'if it was an aircraft would I fly it across the Atlantic' in the case of your x-trail I'd taxi it but I wouldn't be crossing the water.

I would insist on witnessing it on an alignment jig to see that everything has been stretched back into the correct locations, a new towbar is a must, they're not designed to withstand shock loading like this. The X-Trail doesn't seem to be very substantial around the back of it. Have a look at this video, around 4 minutes in. https://www. youtube. com/watch?v=vsuIvSmwpYQ

the Pajero completely un-phased by the dreadful treatment but the X-Trail. ..........

 

 

[Silverback]

Personally I cant understand your concern . .. If your insurance company are repairing it through their own workshops, these same workshops have to meet various standards and most are vehicle manufacture approved and work to the manufactures repair methods, there are many independent repairers who are also manufacture approved.

 

The 3 grand plus in parts sounds a lot but it doesn't take many replacement items to end up with such a bill. . . Any damage is repairable, even down to re-shelling though this is now rare, its all down to being a commercially viable repair against the value of the car. If your concerned about the repair compromising towing safety speak to your insurers for reassurance but if the vehicle has been repaired its been repaired.

 

As for body alignment mentioned above, many repairers have the latest state of the art equipment as per requirements.

 

It will all depend on how thorough the repair company has been. It should really have been on an alignment jig and it sounds like yours has had quite a bump. There is no way to straighten bent metal back into it's original state, the nature and shape of the metal will have changed permanently.

 

 

 

 

Actually there are many body components that can be reformed, through various equipment, from major structural sections to your mobile dent master repair guy, who will roll some dents out of an exterior panel without the need for repainting.

 

http://www. bodyshopsolutionsltd. com/usedequipment. html

Edited August 20, 2017 by Silverback

[AWanderingLancastrian]

It will all depend on how thorough the repair company has been. It should really have been on an alignment jig and it sounds like yours has had quite a bump. There is no way to straighten bent metal back into it's original state, the nature and shape of the metal will have changed permanently.

How comfortable you feel about it only you can say, for me with most things in life that need a decision I ask myself, 'if it was an aircraft would I fly it across the Atlantic' in the case of your x-trail I'd taxi it but I wouldn't be crossing the water.

I would insist on witnessing it on an alignment jig to see that everything has been stretched back into the correct locations, a new towbar is a must, they're not designed to withstand shock loading like this. The X-Trail doesn't seem to be very substantial around the back of it. Have a look at this video, around 4 minutes in. https://www. youtube. com/watch?v=vsuIvSmwpYQ

the Pajero completely un-phased by the dreadful treatment but the X-Trail. . . .. . .. . ..

 

 

 

Consider that the X-Trail could turn-up in the UK as a Genuine Low Mileage One Owner Import - a lovingly cared for example

[Pheasant]

Am I being unnecessarily pessimistic!

 

I tow a Coachman 520/4 with a 2012 plate Nissan X-Trail.

 

Three weeks ago I was shunted in the back end with the tow bar in position. This was pushed forward/under; rear sensors are no more neither is rear bumper. Lip of exhaust tail pipe bent. Inside floor shows what appeared to be slight buckling with a side-to-side ‘fold’ result is some three thousand pounds plus in parts plus labour. Swear the car looked an inch and half shorter. It’s paranoia.

 

Being carried out with full acceptance of being at fault by the other driver. I stopped at manually operated road signs Stop/Go; he did not!

 

I’m scheduled to get the car back tomorrow and the work has been carried out by my insurance nominated repairer. I’m told it comes with a five-year warranty. In no way am I being critical of the repairer; I’ve no experience in this field; I’m trying to deal with gut feelings.

 

A week today I’m due to tug an initial 214 miles to Yorkshire then on to Northumberland and back to Yorkshire. In total just short of nine hundred miles over a three-week period.

 

Am I being unnecessarily pessimistic as to the overall safety of the car following a rear-end shunt? Had not planned to but would I be better getting shot of the X-Trail because it will never be the same again, or rally forth with absolute confidence all is well and in order with no worries?

 

Any comments from those who have experienced a similar experience would be appreciated.

 

Bernard in Tring

 

Hi, I share your concerns,I had rear end shunt same as you,I got two quotes from approved crash repair specialists,both said,oh it's ok!

Neither got underneath to check!

Third company,,provided by insurance company,said same,took car away to repair,I insisted on chassis check,I don't believe they did it.

My towbar was bent right in,touching rear fairing.

I was so concerned,as you are,I got rid quickly after I got it back.

[Black Grouse]

Whilst I don't wish to seem alarmist - many modern cars simply can't be repaired after a rear-end shunt causing ripples in the floor - that's what happens when the energy-absorbing parts of the structure are put to the test - they can't be repaired only replaced.

 

Ripples visible to a non-engineer would be a huge no-no for me.

 

Thoroughly inspect the car when you go to collect it - if the previously identified panels with rippling haven't been replaced or if there's ANY sign of rippling, refuse to accept the car and contact your insurer demanding they write it off.

[Jaydug]

After a rear end shunt, I would want the towbar replaced. Welds could be damaged which would only show up under X-ray. For this reason I always advise against buying second hand bars. You don't know its history. See this topic. . . . http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/44335-new-tow-bar-after-a-5-mph-accident/

Edited August 20, 2017 by Jaydug

[Coriolis]

Couldn't agree with both the above more.

 

A properly performed repair will leave zero evidence that it was ever damaged, so if you (as a self-confessed non-specialist) can see anything at all to indicate there was a shunt, reject it. ...no negotiation.

 

That's what fully comprehensive means (or in your case, what his third party cover is providing)

 

OTOH, if the repair is invisible, then you have the guarantee of said work and backed by the insurance company there is no reason to believe the vehicle is anything other than in perfect condition.

 

When in doubt, don't take it.

 

Good luck.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Coriolis

[Pheasant]

Hi, I share your concerns,I had rear end shunt same as you,I got two quotes from approved crash repair specialists,both said,oh it's ok!

Neither got underneath to check!

Third company,,provided by insurance company,said same,took car away to repair,I insisted on chassis check,I don't believe they did it.

My towbar was bent right in,touching rear fairing.

I was so concerned,as you are,I got rid quickly after I got it back.

I wondered why the crash repairers I went to seemed to dismiss my worries till a friend put foreword his theory.

If they decide the chassis is damaged on a, say few years old car, it will be a write off and they get no job!!

I don't know if this is true,only my mates theory . Dave.

[Silverback]

Wow! . . .The guy hasn't collected the car yet and the repairer is being condemned from rippled floors not repaired to bent tow bars not being replaced. I think the OP question was his concern overall integrity of a large repair to the rear of a vehicle.

 

Tarred and feathered comes to mind

 

The repairer should show the customer the list of parts used and labour description during his inspection and any before any premium excess payment.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Silverback

[Omega54]

I have been in a similar situation though not with a towcar and what I found was that although the car was repaired really well and following an independent inspection was given the all clear I couldn't settle again with it. Every odd noise or strange movement of the back end made me think too deeply about the repair. So in the end it had to go, pity really as it was a fantastic car and there genuinely wasn't anything wrong with it after the repair. But in my mind. ......

 

I'm guessing you will feel the same.

[Guest]

Wow! . . .The guy hasn't collected the car yet and the repairer is being condemned from rippled floors not repaired to bent tow bars not being replaced. I think the OP question was his concern overall integrity of a large repair to the rear of a vehicle.

 

Tarred and feathered comes to mind

 

The repairer should show the customer the list of parts used and labour description during his inspection and any before any premium excess payment.

No matter what angle you look at this from, the car will NEVER be as good as it was prior to the bump. Unseen and undetected damage can occur e. g. Cracked spot welds on the chassis rail, moisture gets in and corrosion starts. In a few years time neither the repairer or the insurer will want to know. The accident wasn't his fault, I would give them a very hard time to make it was perfect in every way and then get rid of it asap.

[angus]

I wondered why the crash repairers I went to seemed to dismiss my worries till a friend put foreword his theory.

If they decide the chassis is damaged on a, say few years old car, it will be a write off and they get no job!!

I don't know if this is true,only my mates theory . Dave.

 

The X-Trail, like 99. 9% of cars produced now doesn`t have a `chassis` so you`d be hard pushed to damage it. No matter what the damage, even if it`s the monocoque itself, if it is properly repaired by professionals using manufacturers replacement parts then there isn`t a problem. If a part was spot welded on at the factory, its replacement can be similarly affixed. If has been seam welded, then thats what will be done with the replacement. The big item which will determine if a vehicle is `written off` is the labour charge, which is why there are so many category "C" and "D" write-offs for sale.

 

Damaged parts are removed and replaced, it`s rare to get anything other than outer body panels repaired (and thats pretty unusual in itself, the days of `body-beaters` are long past - it`s now cut-it-and-chuck-it)

[Guest]

I'd want to have it checked over by an independent inspector, although if you are getting a 5 year warranty then hopefully it will get fixed if anything goes wrong. In my view a bent panel is one thing a hefty swipe up the bum is another

 

I had a situation many years ago when something went under the front off-side wheel of my Cortina (told you it was a long time ago). It was repaired ear where the accident had happened by their repairer as it was undrivable but somehow the car didn't feel right afterwards and the brand new front tyre showed signs of excessive wear after a couple of hundred miles.

 

I took it into my local main dealer who checked it out and he demonstated that the accident had sheared both engine mountings and bent the anti-roll bar and track control arm, neither of which had been repaired or replaced. All they'd done was changed the suspension leg, wheel and tyre.

 

I got a bit snotty with the insurance co who eventually agreed that they would have written the car off if they'd had inspected properly but as they'd already spent a lot of money they paid for the rest of it - far more than the car was worth. It was pretty good afterwards though as all the steering gear was renewed.

[CommanderDave]

When ever I have a vehicle that has had a accident and repair I get shot ASAP as I have never had a repair that can not be seen specially a metallic paint finish after a few months and the sun effects it .

 

 

Dave

[Chalky9]

When ever I have a vehicle that has had a accident and repair I get shot ASAP as I have never had a repair that can not be seen specially a metallic paint finish after a few months and the sun effects it .

 

 

Dave

 

You make it sound like a regular occurrence!

[Silverback]

 

The X-Trail, like 99. 9% of cars produced now doesn`t have a `chassis` so you`d be hard pushed to damage it. No matter what the damage, even if it`s the monocoque itself, if it is properly repaired by professionals using manufacturers replacement parts then there isn`t a problem. If a part was spot welded on at the factory, its replacement can be similarly affixed. If has been seam welded, then thats what will be done with the replacement. The big item which will determine if a vehicle is `written off` is the labour charge, which is why there are so many category "C" and "D" write-offs for sale.

 

Damaged parts are removed and replaced, it`s rare to get anything other than outer body panels repaired (and thats pretty unusual in itself, the days of `body-beaters` are long past - it`s now cut-it-and-chuck-it)

 

 

A bit of pulling, panel beating and regulated spot welding, all done with an extremely fashionable hard hat. .

 

Not for the faint hearted https://youtu. be/42UKWU88b7U

 

A boot floor if repairable and not plastic composite would be pulled.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Silverback

[Silverback]

When ever I have a vehicle that has had a accident and repair I get shot ASAP as I have never had a repair that can not be seen specially a metallic paint finish after a few months and the sun effects it .

 

 

Dave

 

I would change your bodyshop . .. There's no reason for correctly applied paint to fade, especially metallic with a top clear coat. Colour matching equipment, mixing and application is far advance.

[Guest]

The X-Trail, like 99. 9% of cars produced now doesn`t have a `chassis` so you`d be hard pushed to damage it. No matter what the damage, even if it`s the monocoque itself, if it is properly repaired by professionals using manufacturers replacement parts then there isn`t a problem. If a part was spot welded on at the factory, its replacement can be similarly affixed. If has been seam welded, then thats what will be done with the replacement. The big item which will determine if a vehicle is `written off` is the labour charge, which is why there are so many category "C" and "D" write-offs for sale.

And the price for these write offs is reduced because? Theyre not as good as before the accident, things will be distorted no matter how good the repair is short of a new shell and even then it still wont be as good as new.

[Paul_B]

 

I would change your bodyshop . .. There's no reason for correctly applied paint to fade, especially metallic with a top clear coat. Colour matching equipment, mixing and application is far advance.

 

Nostalgias not what it used to be, but it brought memories of backstreet garages who used blending clear instead of 2pack lacquer

 

As for the bump, we told customers that manufacturer worked to the millimetre but work done on our jig was far more accurate and we took far more care than any robot welder, back then the preferred jig was a Celette.

 

Those were happy days as panel beater refinisher, just a pity the money was so poor

[Paul_B]

And the price for these write offs is reduced because? Theyre not as good as before the accident, things will be distorted no matter how good the repair is short of a new shell and even then it still wont be as good as new.

 

Going back a while but we stopped doing them as the dismantlers were charging so much for parts, a nearby dismantlers sold write offs with all parts and this was ok but only for through the leaner months (we used these for the hire side), far more was earned and more job satisfaction was through doing up vintage motors, doing them now could prove lucrative but they must be done with far more care and sympathy.

[FrankBullet]

 

The X-Trail, like 99. 9% of cars produced now doesn`t have a `chassis` so you`d be hard pushed to damage it. No matter what the damage, even if it`s the monocoque itself, if it is properly repaired by professionals using manufacturers replacement parts then there isn`t a problem. If a part was spot welded on at the factory, its replacement can be similarly affixed. If has been seam welded, then thats what will be done with the replacement. The big item which will determine if a vehicle is `written off` is the labour charge, which is why there are so many category "C" and "D" write-offs for sale.

 

Damaged parts are removed and replaced, it`s rare to get anything other than outer body panels repaired (and thats pretty unusual in itself, the days of `body-beaters` are long past - it`s now cut-it-and-chuck-it)

Spot on - get it repaired and forget about it.

[Black Grouse]

 

 

A bit of pulling, panel beating and regulated spot welding, all done with an extremely fashionable hard hat. .

 

Not for the faint hearted https://youtu. be/42UKWU88b7U

 

A boot floor if repairable and not plastic composite would be pulled.

Ripples in "crush-cans" can't be pulled out - they're designed for "single-use"