Alde Header Tank Pump Stops Working.

[SCP1959]

I have the Alde 3020 system fitted which uses the pump in the header tank to circulate the glycol fluid in my 2016 Coachman VIP 575/4. The pump is the 2928-420 version. I have searched for an answer to my particular issue but can't find one. When working the pump makes a very slight whirring noise, certainly nothing like the hammer drill sound which suggests the impeller might be fouling the header tank as others have reported. The heating is very effective too. However, I am currently away in my van and a problem is that the pump simply stops working. The first time this happened I only noticed when the temperature dropped in my van. I checked the panel and the heating was on and the pump operating symbol displayed. I checked the header tank and found the fluid to be quite cool but the pump too hot to touch which is worrying. After removing the pump from the header and twirling the impeller by hand a few times I refitted it and it worked again for a day. I thought all was well but it's done the same thing several times over the past four days and I have to remove the pump and twirl the impeller to get it going again. I'm on an EHU and there is no strange noises or any indication the pump is going to stop. My dealer couldn't offer any help except for them to replace the pump but that's no help to me as I'm 150 miles away from home. I phoned Alde and a very helpful guy there explained that the rubber seal on the shaft can sometimes be fitted too tightly against the pump body. He suggested using long nose pliers to ease the seal down a bit. I've done this and it seemed to cure the problem for a couple of days but it's returned. Has anyone else experienced this and what was the solution? Cheers.

[SCP1959]

I can't edit my post so I need to ask another thing, I have the choice of panel or room temperature sensor with my system. Please can someone tell me where the room temperature sensor is located in my caravan please?

Thanks.

Edited February 23, 2017 by SCP1959

[SCP1959]

Forget my last post regarding the temp sensor. I've just discovered the discrete room temperature sensor is another optional extra along with the power load sensor, the external temperature sensor and external shower that Coachman choose not to fit despite the relatively small cost! I just wish I'd been given a list of the options I could have had but haven't been offered. The external shower was actually listed in the sales brochure too! This is my first caravan and I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that the cost of the caravan was a loss leader. Buying all the accessories and options to get what I need is making an already expensive purchase very expensive indeed!

 

Now I'm wondering if I've solved the problem with the header tank pump. I'd got the temp sensor set to the non-existant room sensor not the control panel sensor. Watch this space!

Edited February 23, 2017 by SCP1959

[Alan Stanley]

We've never bothered with anything other than the fitted panel sensor. I don't care what it reads. If I'm cold I turn it up and vice versa. We do however use the day and night modes to get different temps at night. First thing and during the day and evening. Also to switch off the hot water at night.

[Tin_Snail]

Forget my last post regarding the temp sensor. I've just discovered the discrete room temperature sensor is another optional extra along with the power load sensor, the external temperature sensor and external shower that Coachman choose not to fit despite the relatively small cost! I just wish I'd been given a list of the options I could have had but haven't been offered. The external shower was actually listed in the sales brochure too! This is my first caravan and I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that the cost of the caravan was a loss leader. Buying all the accessories and options to get what I need is making an already expensive purchase very expensive indeed!

 

Now I'm wondering if I've solved the problem with the header tank pump. I'd got the temp sensor set to the non-existant room sensor not the control panel sensor. Watch this space!

 

To be fair to Coachman I don't think they are on their own in not fitting a remote sensor, our 2015 Swift Challenger hasn't got one either, but the heating seems to work perfectly well as it is without one.

 

I have read on here that you can 'modify' and 'improve' the sensitivity of the panel sensor by drilling a hole in the (i think) bottom of the panel surround but personally I see no need at all to do this. Ours works well enough as it is.

[Alan Stanley]

They do work ok. It's the manufacturers that some times screw it up. Fitting the panel in an are that gets say extra warm from an outside source will cause problems. I've seen them over the years right up high so they are measuring heat at head height. Next to an ovan. Even right over one of the heating radiators. None of which is good. I'm not sure but the external sensor I believe only tells you the outside temp. Does not control anything. The inline pump is a far better product than the header tank unit but more expensive. Money as always again.

[Markt1891]

We've never bothered with anything other than the fitted panel sensor. I don't care what it reads. If I'm cold I turn it up and vice versa.

I used to do that but the problem isn't just the temp reading on the panel. I found that the built-in sensor did not react very quickly to real air temp changes in the van. Using a thermostat I discovered that the air temp in the van could drop quite significantly whilst the panel temp remained the same. This is why the "offset" feature doesn't really solve the issue.

 

I fitted the remote sensor in my Bailey U3 and it made quite a difference, apart from the temp reading being accurate the heating now starts and stops in sync with actual air temp changes.

 

Mark.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Markt1891

[TinShack]

I'm not sure but the external sensor I believe only tells you the outside temp. Does not control anything.

There are at least two extra sensors available, an external for display only, and one for placement at a suitable place inside. This second one can be used for control. I do find it to give much better control than the internal panel sensor because of the better response time. There's less overshoot.

 

By default the panel seems to choose the new sensor, but it can be overridden. An extra temp display line appears when the sensor is fitted.

[kiaboy]

SCP1969

 

Take a look at the control panel above the door to the right (could be on the left) and you should see a black round plastic dome this is your remote sensor. If you do not have one there then you will not have one. I have not had any problems with the header tank pump failing just making a noise which made me decide to change it for the boiler in line type when I had the fluid changed

[SuperRed]

The header tank pump in our 2015 coachman had a similar problem, the pump would just stop. Removed pump to see if it had seized but it was OK mechanically. After a couple more times of failing I removed the pump and connected it directly to a 12V supply and it still would not run. The pump was replaced under warranty without question.

SCP1969

 

Take a look at the control panel above the door to the right (could be on the left) and you should see a black round plastic dome this is your remote sensor. If you do not have one there then you will not have one. I have not had any problems with the header tank pump failing just making a noise which made me decide to change it for the boiler in line type when I had the fluid changed

Hi kiaboy, may I ask how much it cost to have the "boiler in line" pump fitted? My service is due in April so may consider getting it done. Also how / where does it fit?

Edited February 25, 2017 by SuperRed

[kiaboy]

The header tank pump in our 2015 coachman had a similar problem, the pump would just stop. Removed pump to see if it had seized but it was OK mechanically. After a couple more times of failing I removed the pump and connected it directly to a 12V supply and it still would not run. The pump was replaced under warranty without question.

Hi kiaboy, may I ask how much it cost to have the "boiler in line" pump fitted? My service is due in April so may consider getting it done. Also how / where does it fit?

Hi SuperRed,

I have sent you a PM

 

Location of in line pump goes to the cold feed of the Glycol fluid below the pipe with the brass auto bleed valve (see photo of the pipe they will remove to fit the pump below)

Edited February 25, 2017 by kiaboy

[JCloughie]

The header tank pump in our 2015 coachman had a similar problem, the pump would just stop. Removed pump to see if it had seized but it was OK mechanically. After a couple more times of failing I removed the pump and connected it directly to a 12V supply and it still would not run. The pump was replaced under warranty without question.

 

I agree with the above. If the pump is not fouling on anything then it might simply be the position it stops in. This was a common thing with brushed DC motors, but I would guess these are brushless. As you say the pump body gets hot in relation to the tank supports this suggestiong the windings are getting power.

 

You could test by switching it off then on while in free air. If, one time it fails to start then that's the problem.

 

Cure, is new pump.

 

I had a Whale water pump fail in my last Bailey while I was away from home. Whale allowed me to buy a new one and return the broken one for testing. After which they gave me a full refund. That might be an option for you. Perhaps your dealer or Alde could send one express.

 

John

[Tandem Man]

SCP1959

If you want to fit the internal sensor,external sensor or battery back-up fitting is detailed on my blog.

 

Obviously mine van is a U3 Cadiz but the fitting will be much the same.

 

They are all very easy to fit.

 

Ian

[SCP1959]

Thank you all for your response. Since setting the temperature control from room sensor to panel the system has worked perfectly. The pump is very quiet when running and so I'm not in a rush to get an inline unit fitted.

Kiaboy I do have the dome on the control panel over the door but with the greatest respect I'm not convinced it is a temperature sensor.

When I next get a chance I'm going to see exactly what sensors are plugged into the boiler itself.

I managed to knock the power off at the EHU supply today when I turned the kettle and toaster on. Fortunately the circuit breaker was external and easily reset. I think a load sensor will be next on the list of upgrades.

Cheers.

[Guest]

Thank you all for your response. Since setting the temperature control from room sensor to panel the system has worked perfectly. The pump is very quiet when running and so I'm not in a rush to get an inline unit fitted.

Kiaboy I do have the dome on the control panel over the door but with the greatest respect I'm not convinced it is a temperature sensor.

When I next get a chance I'm going to see exactly what sensors are plugged into the boiler itself.

I managed to knock the power off at the EHU supply today when I turned the kettle and toaster on. Fortunately the circuit breaker was external and easily reset. I think a load sensor will be next on the list of upgrades.

Cheers.

I have a coachman pastiche 2016,

 

The dome is the sensor you can check with the wife's hairdryer but it is. The panel sensor is way out and next to useless.

 

The only sensors plugged into the boiler are load and outside temprature on the 3020 the lounge fitted as standard on coachman and bedroom are fitted to the touch screen panel.

 

I have a load sensor and it's worth its weight in gold.

 

I had a few issues when away a couple of weeks ago with my Alde heating, the pump had my undieing attention, even when the glycol is at temprature the pump is more very warm to mildly hot, and defiantly not too hot to touch.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Guest

[SCP1959]

SCP1969

 

Take a look at the control panel above the door to the right (could be on the left) and you should see a black round plastic dome this is your remote sensor. If you do not have one there then you will not have one. I have not had any problems with the header tank pump failing just making a noise which made me decide to change it for the boiler in line type when I had the fluid changed

 

 

Thank you all for your response. Since setting the temperature control from room sensor to panel the system has worked perfectly. The pump is very quiet when running and so I'm not in a rush to get an inline unit fitted.

Kiaboy I do have the dome on the control panel over the door but with the greatest respect I'm not convinced it is a temperature sensor.

When I next get a chance I'm going to see exactly what sensors are plugged into the boiler itself.

I managed to knock the power off at the EHU supply today when I turned the kettle and toaster on. Fortunately the circuit breaker was external and easily reset. I think a load sensor will be next on the list of upgrades.

Cheers.

 

Kiaboy, I stand corrected and apologise for doubting you. I actually managed to speak to someone at Coachman this morning before placing an order for a discrete sensor. They confirmed that the aforementioned dome is indeed the discrete temperature sensor.

I'm wondering if it's location isn't ideal as placing it close to the roof means it will always be in warmer air therefore turning the heating off prematurely. .

 

Steve.

Edited May 23, 2017 by SCP1959

[kiaboy]

Kiaboy, I stand corrected and apologise for doubting you. I actually managed to speak to someone at Coachman this morning before placing an order for a discrete sensor. They confirmed that the aforementioned dome is indeed the discrete temperature sensor.

I'm wondering if it's location isn't ideal as placing it close to the roof means it will always be in warmer air therefore turning the heating off prematurely. .

Steve.

 

 

No need to apologise, I personally find the temp from this sensor (checked on the overhead door panel not Alde panel) is way out compared to the Alde and a stand alone thermometer I have, that is one reason why I set the Alde panel as the temp.

[SCP1959]

SCP1959

If you want to fit the internal sensor,external sensor or battery back-up fitting is detailed on my blog.

 

Obviously mine van is a U3 Cadiz but the fitting will be much the same.

 

They are all very easy to fit.

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian.

I can't find the article in your blog. Please can you send me a link to it. I'm particularly interested in how to actually remove the control panel without damaging it.

Thank you,

Steve.

Edited May 23, 2017 by SCP1959

[kiaboy]

Hi Ian.

I can't find the article in your blog. Please can you send me a link to it. I'm particularly interested in how to actually remove the control panel without damaging it.

Thank you,

Steve.

 

Removal of the control panel

If you have strong fingers the surround will pull off I removed mine by putting my fingers on each side towards the bottom and pulled. four screws hold the panel to the wall.

 

The location of the battery back up and sensors can be found on the rear cover once removed.

 

KB

Edited May 23, 2017 by kiaboy

[SCP1959]

Thanks for that Kiaboy.

I'll have a look at the weekend.

Just out of interest, when I try to open the images you've posted it says I haven't got permision to view them.

Is this a glitch or do I need to do something more?

 

Steve

[kiaboy]

Thanks for that Kiaboy.

I'll have a look at the weekend.

Just out of interest, when I try to open the images you've posted it says I haven't got permision to view them.

Is this a glitch or do I need to do something more?

 

Steve

 

Sorry They are in my private folder (school boy error again), I will move them into general and re-posted them here

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by kiaboy

[Tandem Man]

Hi Ian.

I can't find the article in your blog. Please can you send me a link to it. I'm particularly interested in how to actually remove the control panel without damaging it.

Thank you,

Steve.

 

 

Steve,

 

The external temp. sender is here:-

 

http://baileyunicorncadiz3. blogspot. co. uk/2017/02/alde-external-temperature-sensor. html

 

The internal temp. sender is here :-

 

http://baileyunicorncadiz3. blogspot. co. uk/2016/12/alde-remote-temperature-sender. html

 

The clock battery back up is here:-

 

http://baileyunicorncadiz3. blogspot. co. uk/2015/

 

Ian

[SCP1959]

Ian, thank you very much indeed. I've had a quick scan through and there's loads of really useful advice. I'm going to fit the battery back up next. Then I'm planning to move the discrete room temperature sensor to a (in my opinion) better location than where it currently sits above the door just below the roof lining. I've just ordered a load sensor too, in preparation for our holiday in France in September.

I also find suction cups to be very useful. I bought some initially to attach to the side of the caravan inside the awning to hang wet clothing on. Then I found them ideal to fix to the mirrors in my caravan to increase hanging space without having to resort to fitting permanent hooks with screws. I've found these particular suction hooks to be excellent for anyone else who might be interested: https://www. amazon. co. uk/gp/product/B01J1I6G0E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

Kind regards,

Steve

[Guest]

I have the battery back up fitting was literally a 2 minute job.

 

Very clearly marked on the back.

 

I'm still not happy with mine, I set the panel to a temprature, when the display says it's at the desired setting the heating remains on until it goes to 1 degree above.

On means it's still drawing current to the glycol heating elements.

When we first used the caravan it didn't do this.

 

Vans in for service in a couple of weeks going to mention it and see what happens.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Guest

[JCloughie]

I have the battery back up fitting was literally a 2 minute job.

Very clearly marked on the back.

I'm still not happy with mine, I set the panel to a temprature, when the display says it's at the desired setting the heating remains on until it goes to 1 degree above.

On means it's still drawing current to the glycol heating elements.

When we first used the caravan it didn't do this.

Vans in for service in a couple of weeks going to mention it and see what happens.

It's worth looking if the installed accessories menu is correct re. Which pump's are fitted, mine had both ticked. Alde said untick the in line pump as not fitted to my van. After 2 years the heating now works very very well. The problem was caused by the original installer.

 

See the following 2 topics:

 

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/122904-no-heat-with-alde-3020/

http://www. caravantalk. co. uk/community/topic/122729-alde-problem/

 

 

John