Another One For The Bar Room Lawyers (Meant In The Nicest Poss. Way Btw)

[Towtug]

I've just been to assess a damaged vehicle (Car and Caravan), not my usual role but they needed someone quickly.

 

The outfit was waiting at Traffic lights when it was hit by a 14 yr old riding an electric scooter along the adjacent footpath at about 15 mph (Calculated from the CCTV)

The damage to the side of the caravan and the rear of the car, is quite extensive, and will need to be covered by insurance.

 

The question is really that as we see more and more, misuse of the road space and Footpaths etc, whereby electric scooters, hover boards, and bikes are almost exclusively using paths, in the event of an incident like the one above who should be left with the bill?

 

Clearly the scooter rider was at fault, (IE on the path, and electric scooters like this are illegal on public roads anyway) and of course they don't have any insurance.

 

Aside form the illegality, should motor vehicle owners be the only ones to have insurance, or should all road users have to share the burden?

 

Is this a common occurrence, is it on the increase?

 

This is the second time I have had to look at similar scenarios.

 

What are your views.

[Jiffy176]

Potentially would said 14 year old be covered under household liability insurance?

Would have thought that drivers insurance would pursue if in place or send family the repair bill.

But yes insurance would be welcome in some way.

[Guest]

My immediate thought are that for a 14 year old, the parents or guardians should take responsibility and pay for (or be insured for) any damage thus caused - but of course I'm only a armchair lawyer . . .

 

My guess is that an illegal act would not be covered by insurance so the parents (guardians) could be held personally liable.

 

While not a legal requirement (yet) I carry third party insurance for my pedal cycles - just in case - and this is something I wold recommend for all cyclists.

[Guest]

When I flew RC planes we got the insurance through being part of a flying club association (can't remember the name), many cyclists get it as being part of a recognised cycle club.

 

In theory you should be able to claim against the house insurance policy, but that is if the house is insured.

 

I think all road users should have a minimum third party liability insurance, however I am not sure how it would be policed.

 

Perhaps the insurer could provide a credit card sized certificate!

[T00ts]

I as just thinking about this the other day when waiting to pass a bicycle. I felt sorry for the guy because where he would normally expect to ride was full of pot holes so he necessarily had to be almost centre lane. It crossed my mind then that actually they don't pay any road fund and perhaps they should.

 

A 14 yr old is still a minor so parents should cough up. They may have had the foresight to put him on an insurance.

[Upyonder]

I believe the age of 10 is the start of criminal responsibility and they can be brought to court/sued though I believe civil courts take a dim view. Could it be classed as criminal damage. Either way I think a 14 year old can be pursued in the civil court but getting any money may be difficult.

 

I stand corrected,

 

http://www. lossprevention. co. uk/pdf/adviceU18. pdf

Edited September 21, 2016 by Upyonder

[SonofDog]

I think that this is just a hazard of being on the road, like being hit by a deer or similar.

 

If there is a growing problem with a new mode of transport used by kids then yes, there should be a crack-down on it.

 

I think compulsory cyclist insurance is a non-starter due to the people that this would deter from cycling.

 

As for cyclists paying road fund taxes I think that's a crazy idea. Not least because motorists don't pay this tax but also because of the deterrent effect it would have on an activity that is overwhelmingly positive.

[Towtug]

As a bit of an update, I was just speaking to one of the insurers off the record.

They said the police had spoken to the scooter rider, and had informed them of the need to attend a police station to be charged with a motoring offence. But in all likelihood it would not proceed beyond a caution.

 

The insurers will both pay out for the damage, but at least one has said it is not worth there while to pursue a 14 year old with no means to pay. As such the insured loses their no claims discount and has no means of excess recovery.

Further to that because a 14 year old has legal responsibility, the families legal advice will probably be to do nothing as they know the kid wont be pursued.

[birdman101]

We had a caravan damaged on a site a few years back. The caravan was only 7 days old and had damage done to it as the result of other caravanners children's actions. Children were both under 8 years of age. From the parents we got very sorry. The campsite owner not covered by them, camp at own risk. Had to claim on our own insurance around £2,000. Not happy then owning a van which the complete side had been replaced so traded in for another new van costing us a further £3,000.

[CommanderDave]

Civil action against the party that caused the damage is the first thought but I'm not sure on the age of responsibility at 14 .

 

 

 

Dave

[Guest]

It crossed my mind then that actually they don't pay any road fund and perhaps they should.

 

Hi Toots, Nobody pays road fund anymore, we pay a vehicle excise duty based on the emissions on our vehicle.

[CommanderDave]

As a bit of an update, I was just speaking to one of the insurers off the record.

They said the police had spoken to the scooter rider, and had informed them of the need to attend a police station to be charged with a motoring offence. But in all likelihood it would not proceed beyond a caution.

 

The insurers will both pay out for the damage, but at least one has said it is not worth there while to pursue a 14 year old with no means to pay. As such the insured loses their no claims discount and has no means of excess recovery.

Further to that because a 14 year old has legal responsibility, the families legal advice will probably be to do nothing as they know the kid wont be pursued.

 

 

Not sure if you would have a legal right to go after the scooters owner as I thought you needed keys to operate them so the owner could be held responsible for not securing the scooter or allowing it to be driven by a 14 year old on a public highway .

 

 

Dave

[Towtug]

Not sure if you would have a legal right to go after the scooters owner as I thought you needed keys to operate them so the owner could be held responsible for not securing the scooter or allowing it to be driven by a 14 year old on a public highway .

 

 

Dave

Lets suppose at 14 if the rider was given the scooter as a present or had it bought for him for his use, he would be the legal owner.

 

The point is that they are not legal to use on the road or on a footpath. You can only legally use them on private land with the landowners permission. So they could not have insurance in the same way as a motorcyclist would. Plus even if this was the case is an insurer able to insure someone to knowingly doing something illegal?

[rayserv]

i once got insurance for my little ones toylander, its a battery powered little car, this is from the site where i got my parts from.

 

--

Insurance:

Driving our cars in a public place requires Road Traffic Act insurance [3rd party] as of the change in the Road Traffic Act amendments in 2000. Public place e. g. the pavement including outside your house, parks, shows, exhibitions, school playground, car parks etc.

[Durbanite]

You probably need to claim off the car insurance for the car, and caravan insurance for the caravan. The insurance company then have the hassle of claiming off the 14 year old's parent or parents and hopefully your insurance is not affected.

[wozzer]

Sticky one this. You are on the same ground as I was having had my house front window broken by a 12-year old kid throwing rocks. The police quote was "you have insurance, don't you?"

As far as bikes are concerned, too difficult to try to tax, and it would stop a lot of folks enjoying it.

Same with Horses - They use the roads too !

 

Sadly, the days of parents actually taking responsibility for the actions of their offspring have long gone. ...

[Freestyle6]

 

Sadly, the days of parents actually taking responsibility for the actions of their offspring have long gone. ...

Have they? That's certainly not true of the parents we know.

 

Thinking back to my childhood, I don't recall things being better in this respect. Wasn't there more 'freedom' back in the old days?

[shipbroker]

 

My guess is that an illegal act would not be covered by insurance so the parents (guardians) could be held personally liable.

 

One of my staff was injured by someone riding a bike on a pavement. ..................the cyclist rode off afterwards but was traced. ..

no insurance obviously and we were told that if there had been cover such an illegal act would not have been considered.

 

geoff

[wozzer]

I too know lots of nice parents, and well behaved kids.

I just feel a little sad with regard to the way our society seems to be going. ...

More 'freedom' back then? - not to my mind. ..

[Freestyle6]

I too know lots of nice parents, and well behaved kids.

I just feel a little sad with regard to the way our society seems to be going. ...

More 'freedom' back then? - not to my mind. ..

 

I was thinking with regard to 'playing out' etc. There was more scope for being out of sight of your parents (or there was for me!). I'm not saying that meant I was badly behaved but I was probably better able to get away with it than today's kids if I had been!

 

I guess I don't see much evidence for today's society being any better or any worse than previous generations in this respect.

[PR1]

I built a Toylander, a baby series one Land Rover. It is fully insured, and the grand children drive it up and down our close!

If they unfortunately hit something they are insured!

[shipbroker]

Something that some Series One's are not eh?

 

geoff

[klyne]

I may be going against the flow here but given the amount of damage to the car and caravan was the 14 old hurt in this incident?

 

David

[Towtug]

I may be going against the flow here but given the amount of damage to the car and caravan was the 14 old hurt in this incident?

 

David

A bit, but not too badly. Most of the damage was caused because the outfit was pulling away, the scooter hit the back of the car and then got trapped beneath the A frame, the caravan then tried to ride over it and it took a chunk out of the side.

[Towtug]

i once got insurance for my little ones toylander, its a battery powered little car, this is from the site where i got my parts from.

 

--

Insurance:

Driving our cars in a public place requires Road Traffic Act insurance [3rd party] as of the change in the Road Traffic Act amendments in 2000. Public place e. g. the pavement including outside your house, parks, shows, exhibitions, school playground, car parks etc.

I think they may want to revise their advice on that. I think the only powered vehicles that are allowed on the paths are Mobility scooters with a top speed of up to 4mph.