tlawrence127 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hi, We have our van all loaded up now and have done one trip. It felt a bit heavy on the back of the car so thought I'd check the nose weight. Van is parked on grass at the moment so popped some blocks of wood down and put bathroom scales on top. Then used piece of wood under the hitch and lowered the jockey wheel. The reading exceeded the 136kg max of the scales! I don't think we have that much heavy stuff in there ( just a bit of crockery etc) and we only have one propane bottle in the front. Surely something is ŵrong here, how can it be that heavy? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damoleeds Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Where is the weight? If you've chucked it all at tje front, you'll get that. Get as much weight as you can over the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodentop Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Er, no. When we got our Peg 462 we just loaded it up like the old one and that too was over the scales limit - in this case 126Kg. We ended up getting some 'Really Useful' boxes and putting virtually everything inside the 'van in front of the axle into them and them putting them in the wardrobe at the back. Got the nose down to below 90Kg which is the max for our car/towbar. Despite what others may warn you about tail-wagging it made no difference to handling whatsoever and we have done probably getting on for 10K miles with it packed this way. I still have a 6Kg gas bottle in the front along with my satellite kit. 1 Quote 2018 Passat B8 Estate 150GT TDi150 towing a 2018 Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John W Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Trial and error is the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlawrence127 Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Update, just got my 18kg 5 year old to sit at the back. This brought it down to 130kg which at least registers on the scale. I'm gonna have to try moving everything else to the back. Most lockers are empty though so can't see it's going to make a huge difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWanderingLancastrian Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hi, We have our van all loaded up now and have done one trip. It felt a bit heavy on the back of the car so thought I'd check the nose weight. Van is parked on grass at the moment so popped some blocks of wood down and put bathroom scales on top. Then used piece of wood under the hitch and lowered the jockey wheel. The reading exceeded the 136kg max of the scales! I don't think we have that much heavy stuff in there ( just a bit of crockery etc) and we only have one propane bottle in the front. Surely something is ŵrong here, how can it be that heavy? Tim Hi Tim. If you are not on flat and level ground then you will not get an accurate reading anyway. Determine what the height of the towball at the centre is when the vehicle is loaded and ready to go. It should be between 350mm and 420mm with the car laden and with your required nose-weight on the ball - I establish this by standing on the ball with a plastic bag that is ballasted to achieve 75kgs in total - that is my hitch-head and towball maximum weight,I am 68kgs so the bag is ballasted to the difference. Having set the hitch-head to the same height on your nose-weight gauge - blocking up if required. The handbrake must be applied and it is advisable to have the jockey wheel set to just off of the ground in-case the nose-weight gauge shifts. Do not overlook the fact that the nose-weight/hitch-head weight is actually a part of your overall maximum rear axle load. 1 Quote Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned. Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlawrence127 Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Thanks, I haven't done that yet but the caravan is level and sits level when on the car too (self levelling suspension) so I don't think it would make an enormous difference. The van does have a motor mover so perhaps this has made the factory nose weight higher? What are the factory nose weights others have had? Ie completely unladen other than gas etc Also, my tow hitch has an "S" value of 135kg. Is that the max weight of the hitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towtug Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The S value is the max vertical load on the component. Each part will have a value. Ie The coupler and inertia brake on the trailer and the towball and towbar on the car. The lowest of these will govern what your noseweight limit will be unless the car manufacturers published limit is lower still. Quote If all else fails, follow the instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springtime Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What else have you got in your gas locker? Is your hot water tank in the front and if so is it drained? I have 2 gas bottles in my locker together with various blocks of wood and levelling ramps plus other assortments of bits none of which are particularly heavy. I have nothing in the front lockers in the van apart from a very light BBQ unit. Most of the weight is over the axle. I find that I struggle to get up to 70kg noseweight so putting the awning and electric hookup in the front which brings the noseweight up to about 90kg which is fine for me. Quote Willerby Avonmore previous kit VW Splitty Camper,Ford Transit Camper, Commer Highwayman, Sprite Alpine Caravan, Rapids Export Folding Caravan, Fiat Autosleeper Harmony, Ci Granduca Motorhome, McLouis Glen 432 Motorhome, American RV Trail-Lite twin slide outs 8.2ltr petrol/lpg, Lunar Solaris Limited Edition Caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langers8 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Are the scales pressed steel ? Try putting some reinforcement on top of the scales before lowering the van as you might be getting a false reading putting a lot of weight in a small area on the bed of the scales by distorting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanalife Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Buy a calibrated noseweight gauge " To achieve the optimum stability of the outfit, noseweight is generally recommended to be 7% of the actual laden weight the caravan. When the weight of a laden caravan is multiplied by 7%, you typically achieve a noseweight of around 50-90 kg. However, some cars limit the noseweight to 50 kg since this musn't be exceeded, the ' Ideal' noseweight for heavier caravans might not be achieved. " (quote from the caravan manual by John Wickersham) Kind regards Andrew Quote Ford Mondeo Estate Titaniuim TDCi mk4 (16v 140 BHP) (2008) Towing Elddis Odyssey 544 (2008) Truma mover S towing at 98% My web site caravanlife. updated 28/5/2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Grouse Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Buy a calibrated noseweight gauge " To achieve the optimum stability of the outfit, noseweight is generally recommended to be 7% of the actual laden weight the caravan. When the weight of a laden caravan is multiplied by 7%, you typically achieve a noseweight of around 50-90 kg. However, some cars limit the noseweight to 50 kg since this musn't be exceeded, the ' Ideal' noseweight for heavier caravans might not be achieved. " (quote from the caravan manual by John Wickersham) Kind regards Andrew Buy any noseweight gauge and calibrate it yourself using bathroom scales - which are generally far more accurate! 1 Quote 2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I never quite understand why owners don't realise that a van is just an unbalanced see saw. Measure the nose weight empty, or even what it is, if you are over weight then subtract you maximum nose weight from your known nose weight, then multiply that by the distance from hitch to axle centre, each item moved from the front of the axle, its weight x distance and moved behind the axle the same distance equals removing twice same figure from the overweight hitch. Don't move heavy weights to the rear of the van, most vans can be balanced by keeping most of the real heavy loads within a metre behind the axle and still have a stable tow. Should you not have level ground to measure nose weight, you won't be drastically out, but if you are really worried then turn the van round and measure again then take the average. Some vans that have a high empty nose weight may have their axles further to the rear which will give a more stable tow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damoleeds Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Is it true that there's a legal minimum of 4% noseweight when towing? read it somewhere on t'interweb but we all know where blindly following "facts" off the web gets us. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericfield Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Hi, We have our van all loaded up now and have done one trip. It felt a bit heavy on the back of the car so thought I'd check the nose weight. Van is parked on grass at the moment so popped some blocks of wood down and put bathroom scales on top. Then used piece of wood under the hitch and lowered the jockey wheel. The reading exceeded the 136kg max of the scales! I don't think we have that much heavy stuff in there ( just a bit of crockery etc) and we only have one propane bottle in the front. Surely something is ŵrong here, how can it be that heavy? Tim According to Swift, the ex factory nose weight of my 2012 model 565 . ..was 56kg. I didn't measure it empty, but after loading essentials in a reasonable distribution it was 90kg. Of course the 37kg mover and 25kg battery all forward of the axle, don't help. The water heater, if full, being at the front also adds to the noseweight. But I do wonder if your measurement technique is correct. Does it feel like 136kg when you try to lift the hitch? Not sure I would be able to lift it. ..90kg is heavy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Grouse Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Is it true that there's a legal minimum of 4% noseweight when towing? read it somewhere on t'interweb but we all know where blindly following "facts" off the web gets us. .. It's a legal requirement in the UK and EU that the car's maximum noseweight is at least 4% of it's towing limit, or 25kg whichever is the greater. Australia has a MINIMUM of 10%. If you badly load a trailer and get a very light noseweight, or even go negative, then it's not an offence to have less than 4% noseweight - but if you've ever towed a caravan with insufficient noseweight you'll know how much of a bad thing it is for stability. Quote 2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damoleeds Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Minimum 10%?! Wow, even on the lightweight Swift that would have exceeded the noseweight limit! Are you referring to the UK when you mention negative noseweight? Seems bizarre you have to have a minimum positive noseweight if you can legally have a negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durbanite Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 In some Swift owner's handbook, they stated that noseweight should be about 7% of the MTPLM howeve this goes out the window with a twin axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Grouse Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Minimum 10%?! Wow, even on the lightweight Swift that would have exceeded the noseweight limit! Are you referring to the UK when you mention negative noseweight? Seems bizarre you have to have a minimum positive noseweight if you can legally have a negative. The legal bit relates to car makers, not owners - in this case. Many otherwise identical cars sold in Australia have much higher noseweight limits than the same model sold in Europe - just as many otherwise identical cars sold in North America have high noseweight limits similar to Australia but much lower towing limits than UK/EU/Australia. In some Swift owner's handbook, they stated that noseweight should be about 7% of the MTPLM howeve this goes out the window with a twin axle. The "should" is simply acceptance of the fact that they only use the 100kg hitch/A-frame so can't go any higher. There's nothing wonderful about 7% - it's better than 4% but not as good as 10% - but we all have to stick with rated limits. Quote 2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlawrence127 Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Just moved a load of stuff around and got to 120kg. This was with a piece of wood accross the scales. I then tried with the weight on the centre of the scales and got 101kg. Gonna buy a proper nose weight scale as don't trust this. I think with smoke clothes and an awning just behind the axle I'll probably be ok now though. Interested to see how it tows next time we are out. Thanks for all the help and advice all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanNancy Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Buy a calibrated noseweight gauge " To achieve the optimum stability of the outfit, noseweight is generally recommended to be 7% of the actual laden weight the caravan. When the weight of a laden caravan is multiplied by 7%, you typically achieve a noseweight of around 50-90 kg. However, some cars limit the noseweight to 50 kg since this musn't be exceeded, the ' Ideal' noseweight for heavier caravans might not be achieved. " (quote from the caravan manual by John Wickersham) Kind regards Andrew I use bathroom scales. I put a piece of 12 mm ply under the scales to give a firm base another piece of ply is put on top of the scales to distribute the load then a piece of 2" x 1" cut to the correct length and tapered at one end to fit inside the ball hitch. Why buy a nose weight gauge? Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanalife Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why buy a noseweight gauge? It saves you having to cut all those pieces of wood and you won't damage SHMBO bathroom scales! And a noseweight gauge must be easier to transport than bathroom scales and bits and pieces of wood. Kind regards Andrew 1 Quote Ford Mondeo Estate Titaniuim TDCi mk4 (16v 140 BHP) (2008) Towing Elddis Odyssey 544 (2008) Truma mover S towing at 98% My web site caravanlife. updated 28/5/2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durbanite Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I use bathroom scales. I put a piece of 12 mm ply under the scales to give a firm base another piece of ply is put on top of the scales to distribute the load then a piece of 2" x 1" cut to the correct length and tapered at one end to fit inside the ball hitch. Why buy a nose weight gauge? Alan No matter what every one tells you, the bathroom scale method is not very accurate as many bathroom scales are not calibrated year in and year out. If you have the time, place several bathroom scales next to one another and then try each one. I bet each one will read differently by a few kgs. As said who wants to faff around with bathroom scales and pieces of wood on a site? We check our nose weight occasionally when leaving a site. You have spent thousands on a caravan so why hold back on spending £32 to improve the safety of your family as that is the price of the Milenco calibrated gauge. There may be one for sale in the classifieds on this forum. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towtug Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Or if you are down in Cornwall pop into Trago Mills nr Liskeard they had them in for £20 last week. Quote If all else fails, follow the instructions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokee2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Sterling caravans are notoriously heavy on the nose - we had trouble getting ours down too and can still only get it to 85kg at a push. Our last car only had a 75kg and it was unstable so we changed it for one with 100kg. Good luck in your quest. Quote Janet and Jason xxx Jeep Cherokee Limited 2. 0CRD (2015) towing a 2016 Swift Challenger 530 Alde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.